Options for Non-Mass-Produced Boats

[RTB]

Ha! If I ever decide to sail around the world, I can afford to keep my Hunter and pick me up a nice little "well used" S&S 34!

[shadow]

Originally Posted by SaltyMonkey

ummm what "small hunters" have circumnavigated the world?

I ran into a few hunter owners that were more than half way around the world.. Small, meaning mid to higher 30's... I personally wouldn't do it, but it is being done.. I've met people that made the same statement about Jenny's and bene's.. But there are tons doing it as well.. As stated, each boat has their pros and cons and what may work for me may never be considered to someone else..

That's why we should never speak for someone else, we can only speak for ourselves...

[SaltyMonkey]

A Jennie Attalia 32 popped up in a list somewhere.

[Ken on Satori]

Originally Posted by RTB

Ken, maybe you don't mean to sound this way but I see your post above as bashing Hunters. You say they are good for beer can races and fun local trips.

Not sure what you are saying about the CC-Vera Cruz race? I believe if it was that rough, the crew would have been worn out whatever they were sailing.

Your first big boat was a South Coast. It fit the bill...just what does fit your bill?

From a previous post of yours...
<Started dreaming in 1975. Bought a boat in 2000. Worked to pay off and get kids out of school (University). Had first of three heart attacks in 02. Second in 04. Last one in 06. Now disabled (we tried to go but my heart is just too bad) and have sold the boat. DO NOT WAIT TOO LONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ken on Satori>

I was just wondering-during the ten years you owned your boat and having three heart attacks during that period-maybe you'd care to tell us about the oceans you crossed? I guess you arived at port all rested and relaxed...

I just sailed with a friend from N.E. Florida to Cartagena, Colombia. I would not hesitate to do the trip on my old Hunter at the right time of the year (not summer).

As I wrote, for their purpose Hunters are built just as needed, hence Hunter's success. As I pointed out if my only need was for a local boat that's fast and nimble a older 35 (that I have personal experience with) would be really meet my needs. Some Hunter's are not built to cross oceans, some can. Everyone seems to paint Hunters with a broad brush. Do all Hunter's qualify as a world cruiser? You seem to blow the horn that they all are? Are you intending that?
The point about my first three sailboats and the Vera Cruz race was that MY own needs changed with time, and perhaps the OPs needs might also.

Yes I had my heart attacks before I went where I wanted to go but I did enough off shore in the western GOM to know I made the right choice for me and my family. Good on you for your trip more power to you. Are we comparing dicks now? If so HAVE you taken your old Hunter on ocean crossing trips yet?

I am not a "basher". This subject is just more than "they can go anywhere vs. all are junk. Remember even top boats have problems (like blisters).

I cannot enjoy much of anything now so all I have is fond memories. The morphine makes me tired and cranky. Good night. Ken

[gr8trn]

Don,
My wife and I chose Beneteau over Hunter. About same price, similar performance numbers, both production.
What made the difference to us, despite the big airy RV like feeling down below and the traveler on the arch at the helm, we had more comfort with the Beneteau looking like and acting like (actual jib lead tracks...) a sail boat. I prefer the sailing performance of the Beneteau over the Hunter.
And I trusted that the likes of Farr, Finot, Briand and some of the other hull designers that are contracted with Beneteau over the last 10-15 years know what the heck they are doing.
I think Glenn Henderson knows what the heck he is doing as well, and I think he thinks his boats are RTW vessels, by the way, contrary to some opinions I have read saying that Hunter is only trying to build boats that look livable and comfortable for calm condition cruising in order to sell boats. I think Mr. Henderson is quite convinced that he is designing a boat that will and can cruise in most conditions to most places.
I just had more faith in the designer of my Beneteau, I liked that it looked and acted like a sail boat, I liked the sailing performance, I liked the interior design, I like back stays (at least one), and I don't know that I like French things that much. I like USA things in general. Although I am routing for the Dutch in the World Cup. Shame on me!

So, I chose Beneteau over Hunter for designer reputation, style, feel, and the really long production boat building history. Ok, I like some of the deck hardware choices available better to.

Good luck in your search, boat searching and buying and selling is my favorite past time, it should be savored!

Aloha,
Greg

[Sabbatical II]

Hi Don

Well I'm currently building an alternative to a mass production boat. The particular builder (Bluewater Cruising Yachts, Australia) finishes about 2 boats per year. I like being able to choose every component that goes into the boat. I like knowing every staff member that lays a hand on the boat. I like the build quality and the strength of construction. I like the attention to detail. I like a heavy encapsulated lead keel (no bolts). I like a skeg hung rudder. I like huge tankage that located below the water line. However, like all boats it's still a compromise. It's 42' and 12 tonnes so I'm sure every Hunter owner will like sailing past me when the wind is light. I'll just have to pretend I don't care.

The price - don't know yet as it's not finished but am expecting about 50% more than a production boat - depending on how we finish it off.

Greg

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by gr8trn

So, I chose Beneteau over Hunter for designer reputation, style, feel, and the really long production boat building history. Ok, I like some of the deck hardware choices available better to.

This is really what I feel the issue is, the reputation. In the "real" sailing community Hunters are just looked down on and this filters down. I accepted this and was not even looking at the Hunters (really all the current production models) boats. But I look a look and did a little research and don't see what the big deal is. Seems people who are aganist the boats "find" a story to support their view. Some about sailing ability always just seem to be invented.

So I figured I would give a chance for the semi-custom type boat owners to tell what was so much better. But we aren't going to get there as boat bashing is more interesting.

[Sabbatical II]

Originally Posted by Don Lucas

So I figured I would give a chance for the semi-custom type boat owners to tell what was so much better. But we aren't going to get there as boat bashing is more interesting.

Don, did I not give you everything you asked for, and that without bagging out anyone else's pride and joy?

Greg

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by Eleebana

Don, did I not give you everything you asked for, and that without bagging out anyone else's pride and joy?
Greg

You gave a good answer for your choice. I fully accept it. If I had the ability to do a custom so the boat would be what I wanted and that I would have seen it go together and therefore know all systems I would also do so. I definitely hope you enjoy your boat and it takes you where ever you wish.

I fully accept any answer that has a real basis.

[IdoraKeeper]

Is it wise to try to be rational about boat buying, or is it better to fall in love? All boats are one compromise or another. What overcomes a compromise except love?

Todd

[Scurvy]

never owned a boat, but I know and like Don. I think he has asked a reasonable question and it is clear to me that he is doing research on the boat. Like usual, many posters on this board are out to prove something, but show they either are not good at reading or are full of something that ain't worth the electrons it takes to show on your screen.

Here is what I know about hunters. The brokers tell me they are the hardest boats to sell used. That means people don't want to buy used hunters. Makes you wonder who is buying the new ones. First time boat owners? First time sailors? I don;t know but I am certain the brokers say they are the hardest to sell. So I will call that a fact and not an opinion.

I know there are some older models that have some higher levels of respect, but I remember hearing back in the 80's that there were issues with deck delam and hull to deck joints. The newer boats are clearly optimized for creature comforts and the reviews of their sailing characteristics that I have seen or heard are not stellar, but that would be opinion on my part because I can;t say from direct experience. I have sailed a 36' hunter on charter in SF bay and would never want to own one. Sloppy sailing and poor construction - everything was loose. I also sailed a 34 foot hunter in baltimore back in the 90's and don;t remember much other than I did not think much of it and always avoided it after one outing.

The notion that non production boats are superior is flawed. There are some very high quality non production boats. And there are some very low quality. Catalina may earn scorn on this thread, however the Catalina 42 is the most successful 42 footer by a wide margin, measured in hulls sold. They have held their value extremely well, which also indicates something. The Catalina 38 took over the congressional cup from the Cal 40, but that was a long time ago. Today, the Catalina 320 and 340 are a very highly regarded racing class where I live (SF Bay). They have also held their value extremely well. So that says something that strikes me as more fact than opinion.

So people's opinion's on this board are just that and nothing more. Occasionally they are even informed. You'll get more "boat" for your money with a hunter, but it may not be the same kind of "boat" as another make. And you will have a hard time selling it when the time comes. Just ask the brokers. That is a fact.

[fishwife]

Forgive me adding to the thread drift, I don't really like Hunters for anything except weekend sailing but I've seen a few boats that do it for me. I sailed a Moody for years, an old boat but she never let me down. Between boats I lucked into sailing on a Mason from Dana Point to Mexico. If I was looking for a semi custom boat with a pedigree I'd start there. Sails well, comfortable and sturdy, nothing to make you worry in your bunk when you're off watch.

P.

[rourkeh]

If you want to know why one boat is superior to another I would suggest visiting a couple of boat manufacuring facilities. They have them all over the U.S. I was in the marine business for years and as part of my job I toured alot of production facilities. All of them have tours for the public. Only then will you truely understand the differences between brands. Alot goes into the build of a production boat, and the subtle differences effect the price on every level. I have put my life on the line more times than I can count while boating and the main thing I look for in the boats I have owned over the years is solidity. If I am going to take the chance that a boat of mine is all that is between me and 15 foot seas for 14 hours I damn sure want to know it was built like a sherman tank and not a dinky toy. There will always be a Hunter and there will always be a Hinkley but to compare the two on any level is a joke. I dont knock anyone their right to buy whatever they want but just be sure you understand the capabilities of the boat you are on, or your going to one day get in a world of trouble.

[Doodles]

Originally Posted by Scurvy

never owned a boat, but I know and like Don. I think he has asked a reasonable question and it is clear to me that he is doing research on the boat. Like usual, many posters on this board are out to prove something, but show they either are not good at reading or are full of something that ain't worth the electrons it takes to show on your screen. ...


So people's opinion's on this board are just that and nothing more. Occasionally they are even informed.

I don't have a dog in this fight but I'm wondering where your opinion fits in here?

[S/V Illusion]

Originally Posted by Don Lucas

So for the anti Hunter people (because I stirred a pot); what do you like about your boat that is better than a Hunter (or any similar "production" boat if you so chose)? Name the boat model and how much you are willing to pay for it! Why is it going to be a better boat to sail and live aboard (ie cruise).

Never thought I would be defending Hunter!

wonder if the items in the above get mentioned beyound say the 6th reply

I had to laugh at some of the prior responses and wonder on what exactly some of these folks base their value judgments when comparing boats and find it more funny that they form some opinion of a boat brand on hearsay or at best only a cursory understanding.

Not sure if I will actually hit the send key at end but this should be an interesting exercise regardless. I should explain that I currently own two boats:
A Hunter 40.5, and
an Alden 50.

Two very different categories of sailboat and I won't bother to explain how we came upon each except to say that it may put me in a different place when comparing apples to oranges.

We also previously owned a Moody in which our family traveled across the Pacific.

My first comment is that anyone who criticizes a brand is an idiot or at least sounds like one. I've seen all kinds of boats in places most people never heard of and all of them had broken parts, major refit need and general maintenance issues regardless of the nameplate on them. Seaworthiness, safety, stability or whatever other measure one wishes to choose to compare boats is totally dependent on the above and has virtually nothing to do with who made it.

We've experienced delam issues, keel separations, voids, bulkhead tabbing issues, engine problems, leaks, etc... on every boat we own or have owned,no more so on the Hunter and in fact the H has been relatively trouble-free.

My other comment has to do with value. This obviously is a measure which differs depending on one's perception and everyone will have a different opinion on whether a $1 m boat has greater value than a $150,000 boat when they are functionally interchangeable as ours have been. I once had a Mercedes that was a piece of crap compared with the current Toyota I drive. I love my Avalon and hated the MB, especially when it broke down which it did often. Value of a Hunter to me when compared with the Alden is, as the commercial goes, priceless. We've had much more fun, felt as safe, enjoyed more places and had to deal with less maintenance on the Hunter.

Frankly, anyone who bashes a boat brand is simply showing their ignorance in my opinion.