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Old 14-10-2021, 03:59   #1
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My Rocna didn't hold in mud - a first. Confession from a cocky new gen anchor owner

Today my Rocna 55 broke out of hard mud and didn't reset. This happened in 11' of water with somewhere around 90' of scope. We were Med moored and the port stern kissed the quay causing a small amount of fiberglass damage. There was about 25 knots of wind on the starboard beam at about 60 degrees. Location Argostoli, Kefalonia, Greece.

I actually thought I'd broken my shackle as I pulled in the chain as it came so easy across the bottom. The tip of the anchor was a solid ball of mud, straight across, but not above the base of the roll bar. My anchor roller is about 4' above the water so it should have been a 6:1 scope.

My reason for posting is two fold. First, its reset my confidence with the anchor, which previous to this I would have considered faultless and bomb proof. And second, I've read so many post they have never had their anchor drag or trip no matter if it was used 400 times per year for 50 years. Well, I confess, mine did.

To round out the story, the only other two boats that were anchored also broke free at the same time. One with an Ultra and one with a Delta. No idea on scope in their cases. Maybe its mud here over a hardpan bottom and therefore didn't allow the anchor to bury anymore. I don't know but it does show the one major fault of the new gen anchors which is when they do break free, if plugged with mud, won't reset.
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Old 14-10-2021, 04:05   #2
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My Rocna didn't hold in mud - a first. Confession from a cocky new gen anchor owner

Sone of the harbours in the Ionian have very hard packed mud ( Kastos is a well known one ) anchors have real trouble burying , for example in kastos you need about 50 metres in 3 metres at least to ensure holding

Iíve dived my delta in kastos , in episcotti around the corner on Kalamos the whole anchor is gone under , in kastos the delta buried cleanly perfectly upright , but with about 30 % of the fluke visible despite serious attempts to dig it in.

By the way are you not getting hammered with all these very nasty southerlies around this week

Note that the bible on anchoring ( HInz) has a very interesting chapter on shallow anchoring where he shows that scope needs to be dramatically increased , ie 10x typical to achieve similar results as in deeper water
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Old 14-10-2021, 04:19   #3
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Re: My Rocna didn't hold in mud - a first. Confession from a cocky new gen anchor ow

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Originally Posted by Palarran View Post
Today my Rocna 55 broke out of hard mud and didn't reset...previous to this I would have considered faultless and bomb proof. And second, I've read so many post they have never had their anchor drag or trip no matter if it was used 400 times per year for 50 years...
Bear in mind there are three types of yottie:
Those who've never anchored, those whose anchor has dragged at some point and those who lie about it; the third are particularly prevalent amongst those who've paid top-dollar for the latest wonderment.
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Old 14-10-2021, 04:39   #4
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pirate Re: My Rocna didn't hold in mud - a first. Confession from a cocky new gen anchor ow

Get a Bruce.. You Know it makes Sense..
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Old 14-10-2021, 04:48   #5
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Re: My Rocna didn't hold in mud - a first. Confession from a cocky new gen anchor ow

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Originally Posted by Palarran View Post
I don't know but it does show the one major fault of the new gen anchors which is when they do break free, if plugged with mud, won't reset.

I don't think I'll get a chance to try until next year, but locally, there's an area where my Vulcan usually comes up with an incredible amount of mud on it (6+ inches tall on the fluke) even after lifting it through 50 feet of water, but the holding is good and solid. I should try breaking it out, not lifting it to the surface, but just letting more rode back out and re-setting it to see if the mud on the fluke gets pushed out of the way or if it prevents setting.
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Old 14-10-2021, 07:12   #6
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Re: My Rocna didn't hold in mud - a first. Confession from a cocky new gen anchor ow

I have often thought about diving down and using a small hand sledge hammer to set my Rocna where I know the bottom has a hard pan layer or is clay.

At the extrema or upper bound, where the bottom is like a concrete slab, one would not expect any anchor to hold. From that bottom types can span the range to soft silt where the water bottom interface is not well defined.

I know I would sleep better in some locations if I dove down and hammered the anchor in. That said, in the event of a reset it would be unlikely to be successful.

It seems that in the long haul, having a night watch during bad weather is the only sure way to avoid a possible disaster.
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Old 14-10-2021, 07:22   #7
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Re: My Rocna didn't hold in mud - a first. Confession from a cocky new gen anchor ow

got one word for you....Bruce !!!
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Old 14-10-2021, 07:24   #8
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Re: My Rocna didn't hold in mud - a first. Confession from a cocky new gen anchor ow

I am a terrible communicator.
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Old 14-10-2021, 07:24   #9
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Re: My Rocna didn't hold in mud - a first. Confession from a cocky new gen anchor ow

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Originally Posted by LakeSuperior View Post
I have often thought about diving down and using a small hand sledge hammer to set my Rocna where I know the bottom has a hard pan layer or is clay.



At the extrema or upper bound, where the bottom is like a concrete slab, one would not expect any anchor to hold. From that bottom types can span the range to soft silt where the water bottom interface is not well defined.



I know I would sleep better in some locations if I dove down and hammered the anchor in. That said, in the event of a reset it would be unlikely to be successful.



It seems that in the long haul, having a night watch during bad weather is the only sure way to avoid a possible disaster.
I would think breaking the hard pan w a heavy chisel and then setting the anchor in the break would be more effective...might want SCUBA for that job!
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Old 14-10-2021, 07:28   #10
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Re: My Rocna didn't hold in mud - a first. Confession from a cocky new gen anchor ow

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Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
Get a Bruce.. You Know it makes Sense..
Do you mean cent's? I mean you can't give them away except for scrap

But, after this, I'll try harder to keep an open mind with other anchors. I PROMISE!!
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Old 14-10-2021, 07:36   #11
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Re: My Rocna didn't hold in mud - a first. Confession from a cocky new gen anchor ow

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Originally Posted by Palarran View Post
Do you mean cent's? I mean you can't give them away except for scrap



But, after this, I'll try harder to keep an open mind with other anchors. I PROMISE!!


Candid question please: a Bruce 15kg came with my new-to-me boat. I did not have much experience with it when I replaced it with a Spade 20kg. Then I posted it for sale for $100 on a much active platform, did not get a single reaction.
Is Bruce that bad?
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Old 14-10-2021, 07:38   #12
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Re: My Rocna didn't hold in mud - a first. Confession from a cocky new gen anchor ow

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
Sone of the harbours in the Ionian have very hard packed mud ( Kastos is a well known one ) anchors have real trouble burying , for example in kastos you need about 50 metres in 3 metres at least to ensure holding

Iíve dived my delta in kastos , in episcotti around the corner on Kalamos the whole anchor is gone under , in kastos the delta buried cleanly perfectly upright , but with about 30 % of the fluke visible despite serious attempts to dig it in.

By the way are you not getting hammered with all these very nasty southerlies around this week

Note that the bible on anchoring ( HInz) has a very interesting chapter on shallow anchoring where he shows that scope needs to be dramatically increased , ie 10x typical to achieve similar results as in deeper water
I somewhat suspect the 6:1 scope could have had something to do with it. We've been here for two days though and there was a lot of tension on the anchor so I assumed it had buried. Not so. By observation I think many use scope to overcome the fact their anchor hasn't dug in at all. I mean, lay out 90 meters of chain in 5 meters of water and I don't think the windlass can actually pull it tight.

Anyway, it's raining like crazy here this afternoon - buckets of water. Weirdly the wind is totally swirling in the bay and given my earlier problem we will watch our anchor alarm pretty closely tonight. We're hoping to get to Poros tomorrow and then head to Messolonghi for the end of the season on Saturday. Forecasts have been crap though so it will play out as it will. I should have contacted you when we were in Lefkas. Maybe next spring.
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Old 14-10-2021, 07:41   #13
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Re: My Rocna didn't hold in mud - a first. Confession from a cocky new gen anchor ow

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quebramar View Post
Candid question please: a Bruce 15kg came with my new-to-me boat. I did not have much experience with it when I replaced it with a Spade 20kg. Then I posted it for sale for $100 on a much active platform, did not get a single reaction.
Is Bruce that bad?
I can't say as I've no experience with them and have now pledged to keep an open mind to other (shitty) anchors. Ooop's. That was a joke.
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Old 14-10-2021, 07:49   #14
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Re: My Rocna didn't hold in mud - a first. Confession from a cocky new gen anchor ow

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Then I posted it for sale for $100 on a much active platform, did not get a single reaction.
Is Bruce that bad?
Yes. The main reasons to use a Bruce anchor on a small boat is either it's what you have and works well enough or you get it for cheap and you can't afford anything better.

This applies to anchors for small boats you still can easily carry on your own. Once the weight goes up well beyond the point where digging into the ground is less of an issue, the Bruce seems to be a fine anchor. That's why anchors uses on oil-platforms or cargo ships are of a different design than small boat anchors.
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Old 14-10-2021, 07:57   #15
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Re: My Rocna didn't hold in mud - a first. Confession from a cocky new gen anchor ow

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I am a terrible communicator.


Huh, I seem to recall you saying this exact thing 2 or more years ago, even going so far as to perforate a Manson supreme in an attempt to clear the mud.
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