My Rocna didn't hold in mud - a first. Confession from a cocky new gen anchor owner

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Man, I got a used 80lbs Rocna to replace me stolen Manson Supreme of the same general size.

I’ve been feeling nervous about using it and trusted the Manson supreme greatly.

I’m wondering if I should ditch this Rocna and stick with what I know and love and just fork out for another Manson supreme.

Of course, this was a weird situation in this thread since there was a force at 90 degrees to the chain pushing in the anchoring setup, but still. I’d rather sleep well at night.

I'd probably either use it or get something different and non-rollbar. And maybe even another size up to account for extra windage once you get the rig installed.

[Palarran]

Originally Posted by Off Trail

Tough situation, thanks for sharing it [emoji106]

Dan

Thanks Dan. It's just some fiberglass work so no big deal. I just wanted to share as too often we (I) only post the wins. Two things occur more and more to me. One is the more I know, the more I know what I don't know, if you know what I mean ;-) and two, the old saying "There but by the grace of God go I" rattles around in my brain.

Well, lemons to lemonade, it's rainy and windy here in Greece - BUT I'M IN GREECE!! and there are a ton of sea turtles popping their heads up around us in between the squalls so that's cool. Better than a day at the office.

[Tudorsailor]

Originally Posted by Palarran

Today my Rocna 55 broke out of hard mud and didn't reset. This happened in 11' of water with somewhere around 90' of scope. We were Med moored and the port stern kissed the quay causing a small amount of fiberglass damage. There was about 25 knots of wind on the starboard beam at about 60 degrees. Location Argostoli, Kefalonia, Greece.

I actually thought I'd broken my shackle as I pulled in the chain as it came so easy across the bottom. The tip of the anchor was a solid ball of mud, straight across, but not above the base of the roll bar. My anchor roller is about 4' above the water so it should have been a 6:1 scope.

Firstly commiserations. It is sickening when you hear/feel that crunch. Secondly I bet you have been sitting in terrible weather for the past week and this is not what you needed.

Can I ask the length of your boat? If you have a Rocna 55 I am assuming that it is more than 50ft? The teaching for med mooring for when to drop the anchor is when you are about 3 boats lengths from the quay. I have never been sure if this is 3 boat lengths from the stern or the bow. If it is from the bow, shouldn't have the anchor at least 150ft from from bow when moored and when depth + topside added, then the scope should be 151ft if it were a straight line. This 3xboatlength advice never seems to take into account the depth.

When one is Med Moored the chain is not sitting on the sea bed but mostly off the ground. So maybe that is why distance from the bow is the key measurement?

Not trying to be critical. Just asking the question as I have a 50ft yacht with a 40Kg Rocna

TS

[Thumbs Up]

There could be a case made for a physically smaller anchor in certain (hard mud over hard pan) bottoms. A 120 lb Rocna 55 is a massive anchor. Using a smaller anchor would have allowed a greater percentage of it to bite.

[boatman61]

I never have my chain that tight.. I tie off the stern lines then take in enough chain to keep me off the Quay yet not enough for my lines to go taut, the weight of the chain keeps her off the Quay.
From there I modify according to weather.. wind picks up on the nose, take in a few feet.. from the side less of a threat but keep an eye on things.
As for depth + the minimum 3 x boat length that's just common sense... throw your scopes outa the window for this exercise.

[goboatingnow]

Like everything it’s horses for courses, in some stern too situations there’s a lot of slop and or wash and I find I tighten the chain especially leaving the boat or overnight , if it’s quiet I release the slack a bit. This also helps those my chain fouls as they can haul the chain to the surface

But the point here is on 6:1 scope in shallow water no anchor will cope.

Where I can I dive my anchor, at full tightness the chain is never lifted off the bottom anywhere near the anchor anyway. That’s the whole point of sufficient scope all drag is horizontal to the anchor.

[Anders]

Originally Posted by adjo

I got rid of my (genuine) Bruce anchor after it had dragged for the third time due to getting boulders stuck in the "palm of its hand".

If you were designing a grapple to pick up boulders off the seabed this would be what you would come up with! I kept it for two years because it had been an expensive purchase and I'm a Scotsman.

First time I used my Rocna and tested it with the engine and it did not hold! When it got to the surface it had a rock on't the scoop just big enough to not go through the hoop.
Never happened again but it took a while to restore my faith in the Rocna.

[Palarran]

Hey, the positive of the whole experience is we went out in the bay and anchored and looked what we hooked with out chain (in 20 knots and driving rain). Bonus!!

[Nani Kai]

Originally Posted by Joh.Ghurt

Yes. The main reasons to use a Bruce anchor on a small boat is either it's what you have and works well enough or you get it for cheap and you can't afford anything better.

This applies to anchors for small boats you still can easily carry on your own. Once the weight goes up well beyond the point where digging into the ground is less of an issue, the Bruce seems to be a fine anchor. That's why anchors uses on oil-platforms or cargo ships are of a different design than small boat anchors.

Yes, but....In 25 years operating boats in Hawaii up to 65', Bruce anchors were excellent. Hawaii, except in the harbors, doesn't have mud however. Coral, rocks, sand. Sometimes shallow sand on hard lava bottom where no anchor really sets. But with that exception I found Bruce anchors to perform well.

Doesn't apply to OP's situation with sticky mud over hard pan but just didn't want Bruce to get a bad rap in all conditions. As with almost anything else in life, it depends.......

[Martinini]

Get a Fortress o0ne size larger for mud and you should be fine.

[Mare Nostrum]

What about a Danforth anchor?? I have used a Danforth throughout the Mexican Pacific Coast for 25 years---never a problem!!

[gulfislandfred]

I remember all the same praise for the Bruce, when they were the new thing.



A lot of people use Bruce anchors, especially commercial fishermen. A lot of fishermen use the Northill, too. They're not as pretty on the bow roller, which seems to be one of the criteria for some folks.


Every anchor drags sometimes. Blame the anchor, spend more money on the latest, if you like.



The reason you can't sell a Bruce for $100 is that you can buy a new one, or a decent copy, for $100. Yes there are bad Bruce copies available for the same price.


People who can afford jewelry will pay for it. People who don't have much money will still go cruising, and use what works.

[carmarche]

Not quite on topic but unfortunately I came to realize soon after purchasing a Rocna Vulcan 33kg (73#) thinking it was a magic bullet for our 2004 Beneteau 50… (an upgrade from our 55# Delta) found it doesn’t work in silty mud at all. .
Had my hopes dashed on multiple occasions and quickly turned around located/bought a used fortress FX 55 I found on consignment as back up for those bottom conditions.
To be honest I haven’t had any resetting issues in other bottoms and have been very happy (although my confidence level is far from what it used to be)
But in light mud… I was just digging furrows, couldn’t get it to hook up at all. Even with more than 150 feet of 3/8 chain out in just 10-12’ .

[sv Stella Maris]

Common issue I’ve seen with Rocna. I’ve rescued a cat that fouled in mud. The Rocna does better in hard bottom than my Mantus, but Mantus is superior in mud (more surface area per pound). Compromise…

The fouled Rocna I assisted had a massive mud ball on it…dragging but trying to set. That speaks to its proper design.

Mantus won’t fit on many boats due to width and roll bar…

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by sv Stella Maris

The Rocna does better in hard bottom than my Mantus, but Mantus is superior in mud (more surface area per pound).

At most sizes the two brands are comparable in SA/wt - only from 55/57kg and up does the Mantus gain a SA advantage - presumably thinner plate used. As you said - compromise.