My Rocna didn't hold in mud - a first. Confession from a cocky new gen anchor owner

[donradcliffe]

Sorry to hear you kissed the dock. I also had glasswork to do on the stern after mooring in the Med, and before I bought a special fender for the transom. I don't know how a GPS based alarm would work because the movement is so small, but I could make something up with an Arduino and off the shelf ultrasonic sensors.

I also had trouble with a Manson Supreme clogging with weed and mud during a thunderstorm in Canada. The Supreme and the Rocna are several levels above the Bruce, but they are not 100%. I used a Danforth HT for med mooring, as its big flukes give it tremendous inline holding power without creeping.

I dragged my 20kg Bruce RTW until I got to Turkey, where it just would not penetrate the weed and roots unless I dove down and rocked it in while the admiral backed the boat down. The other factor was that Yatmarin in Marmaris was selling Buegel knockoffs for $2/lb. My take on Bruce is that 30kg is a minimum weight to make it a useable anchor due to its widel point and small fluke size. The Buegel knockoff set much better, but it too didn't have the fluke area that an equivalent Rocna has.

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by Panope

True.

However, a particular Rocna anchor that I tested was the worst at resetting (in a particular seabed) compared to all other anchors that I have tested (I have tested most of the popular designs).

Steve

I don't really think the OP's situation was a "resetting problem." Since he was med-moored the anchor pulled out in roughly the same direction as it was set. Obviously a big clump of mud attached to the anchor defeated the anchors' mechanical abilities to dig - and from the OP's narrative that also afflicted a plow-type anchor and a ballasted spade-type anchor, so not just Rocna's Achilles' heel.

IMHO, with a cat of that size the OP should have had twice as much chain down, and/or because of the bottom should have used a Fortress or equivalent type of anchor.

[MicHughV]

These anchor topics are starting to get VERY boring now.

Every sailor out there has his/her preferred anchor and the reasons why.

I've been a Bruce fan since 40 years ago, and still a Bruce fan today. It's what I like, and I don't really give a damn what someone else likes or dislikes or why. The modern version of the Bruce is called a Claw. Why they didn't keep the original name beats me, as most people still refer to it as a Bruce.

I think most sailors feel this way about their own anchor selection.

But...the secret to success for most any anchor is to set it properly.

[Panope]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

I don't really think the OP's situation was a "resetting problem." Since he was med-moored the anchor pulled out in roughly the same direction as it was set. Obviously a big clump of mud attached to the anchor defeated the anchors' mechanical abilities to dig - and from the OP's narrative that also afflicted a plow-type anchor and a ballasted spade-type anchor, so not just Rocna's Achilles' heel.

IMHO, with a cat of that size the OP should have had twice as much chain down, and/or because of the bottom should have used a Fortress or equivalent type of anchor.

In one particular seabed, I have found the Rocna to release from straight line pull tests at some of the lowest holding power numbers of any anchor. -And not reset.

The worst offender was a 45lb Galvanized Rocna of unknown manufacture date. I noted several construction flaws that may have affected performance. I have since tested a newer Rocna anchor (2020) that did not have these flaws and included refinements to the design that may have been implemented (by the manufacturer) to address this (mud fouling) issue. That anchor performed noticeably better than the older version, but was still much more prone to fouling and had less holding power than most other anchors in that particular seabed. In other seabeds, the Rocna performed very well in all aspects.

It was not clear to me from the Original Post, whether the other two anchors (that failed) had a "resetting" problem or simply dragged.

[gregabbiss]

Originally Posted by Palarran

Today my Rocna 55 broke out of hard mud and didn't reset.

Anchors are not a perfect device and you’re often setting them in imperfect conditions. I have a Rocnor 40Kg (Lagoon 450S) and although I have great confidence in it. It will drag sooner or later I am sure but currently has a 100% clean record. Not a Rocnor fan boy; good anchor but there are quite a few good anchors and I hear good things about all of them if properly used and weighted.

Sorry to hear you’ve had some damage to your boat. Seems you’ve got a good anchor and technique, sometimes Sh$t just happens and if Med moored there wouldn’t have been room for the anchor to reset, I am sure ,before you’ve bumped the dock.

[Jim Cate]

if Med moored there wouldn’t have been room for the anchor to reset, I am sure ,before you’ve bumped the dock.

Exactly!

Once broken out, IMO NO anchor could have reset in the small distance you moved prior to hitting the dock.

Med mooring is a very different situation than normal anchoring, where if an anchor does break out the condition of dragging along the surface has at least some chance of clearing mud balls off the tip and permitting a reset.

Over the years that we've used a Manson Supreme we have had two instances of the anchor pulling out during a strong 180 degree shift in a frontal passage, and it too failed to reset those times and on inspection it was clogged. We've been through a lot of such shifts where nothing happened, but in those cases we don't know if it pulled out and reset or if it simply stayed put.

Since we get a lot of strong frontal passages down here in Tassie, I am considering the switch to an Excel, but have not yet sprung the money!

Jim

[adjo]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Get a Bruce.. You Know it makes Sense..

I got rid of my (genuine) Bruce anchor after it had dragged for the third time due to getting boulders stuck in the "palm of its hand".

If you were designing a grapple to pick up boulders off the seabed this would be what you would come up with! I kept it for two years because it had been an expensive purchase and I'm a Scotsman.

I also found it took a long time to dig into hard mud and would sometimes skip along the surface. It would start digging in then release and start again. Not good.

A good anchor in soft mud or sand but this failing makes it unsuitable for general purpose use.

[Panope]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Exactly!

Once broken out, IMO NO anchor could have reset in the small distance you moved prior to hitting the dock....



.......Jim

Jim, I don't think the OP (or anyone else) thinks a reset would have saved him.

I took his comment -

"I actually thought I'd broken my shackle as I pulled in the chain as it came so easy across the bottom"

-as simply a report of what he experienced.

Steve

[skipperpete]

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Panope

Jim, I don't think the OP (or anyone else) thinks a reset would have saved him.

I took his comment -

"I actually thought I'd broken my shackle as I pulled in the chain as it came so easy across the bottom"

-as simply a report of what he experienced.

Steve

Perhaps so, Steve, perhaps so. But there followed a lot of comment about how the mud ball prevented resetting (as it can), and I thought a lot of those comments suggested that the OP's anchor should have reset if it didn't have that dreaded condition... could well be that I misinterpreted their comments, and mine was unneeded.

Jim

[goboatingnow]

Med mooring to a quay is very problematic , firstly you need 10:1 scope , in 3 metres plus 1 to the bow , you need 40m out , if you have the space drop even more , I often have 50m in 3 metres, stern too

6:1 ain’t going to cut it , in this case the short length will destroy the catenary effect and a surge will pull the anchor out as was commented there’s no chance to reset before you hit the dock

You will regulary see “ old hands “ drop a spectacular amount of chain in some harbours. In Kalamos Geogre will insist you go right to the other side and yiu end up with almost everything you have out.

This was a failure of scope not the , not to mention the boat is a big cat with way more windage then a mono

[Tiemo]

Rocna's designer admits the Rocna can have difficulty resetting in mud. The conversation he had was the author of this blog (link below). The link also has a video in it of tests done on the Rocna with a 180 degree boat swing. Bummer as I drank the kool-aid as well and bought a bigger Rocna to replace the one that was on the boat I bought; albiet at half price. My limited understanding is that there is no perfect anchor.

https://www.morganscloud.com/2019/05...ts-on-vulcan2/

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Med mooring to a quay is very problematic , firstly you need 10:1 scope , in 3 metres plus 1 to the bow , you need 40m out , if you have the space drop even more , I often have 50m in 3 metres, stern too

6:1 ain’t going to cut it , in this case the short length will destroy the catenary effect and a surge will pull the anchor out as was commented there’s no chance to reset before you hit the dock

You will regulary see “ old hands “ drop a spectacular amount of chain in some harbours. In Kalamos Geogre will insist you go right to the other side and yiu end up with almost everything you have out.

This was a failure of scope not the rocna

Exactly.. Med mooring with one's own hook one can never have enough chain out there to my mind no matter what anyone says.. and decent stern fenders..

[Goodall_M1]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Med mooring to a quay is very problematic , firstly you need 10:1 scope , in 3 metres plus 1 to the bow , you need 40m out , if you have the space drop even more , I often have 50m in 3 metres, stern too

You will regularly see “ old hands “ drop a spectacular amount of chain in some harbours. In Kalamos George will insist you go right to the other side and you end up with almost everything you have out.

If going into Kalamos always listen to George!
(Getting out the next morning with wind coming onshore can be challenging!)

I unfortunately have, over the years, acquired a reputation for bad decisions when doing Med-moor with an anchor..

How many other people have gone for the "drop it well out and give it lots of scope" only to get within 3 feet of the quay and run out of rode, luckily the crew member with the stern lines hadn't tried to step off!

In the old days of going in bows-to with the kedge out you could quickly extend the rode by tying on another line.

I remember having to add two extra lines on when mooring in Kioni, and being told by my sister "you see that cottage on the other side with the green door, our anchor is on their garden.." It wasn't (quite) but we didn't drag when the side-winds came howling through that night, and both our neighbours did.

[senormechanico]

Originally Posted by LakeSuperior

I have often thought about diving down and using a small hand sledge hammer to set my Rocna where I know the bottom has a hard pan layer or is clay.

Your ears will never be the same if you do. OUCH !!!!!