My Rocna didn't hold in mud - a first. Confession from a cocky new gen anchor owner

[sailcrazy]

From our experience(10yrs in Asia, 4 in the Medd, and now 7+ in the Caribb)....NO anchor will always be the right one! We've used a Bruce, then a Delta, and now a Rochna. Without a doubt, the Rochna is the best we've ever had, ie, sets and holds far more times than not. But there are times it doesn't set on the first attempt, and there are times when it's slipped. That's why they make anchor alarms! And when Medd mooring having someone else pick up and/or disturb your set is a frequent happening. Not perfect, but by far the best we've ever used!

[Sam Woodbridge]

Originally Posted by Panope

The reason they don't watch the videos is because they (for the most part) suck.

-boring
-endless hours of mud
-poor editing
-poor choice of words
-poor on camera/microphone demeanor
-a voice that irritates some liseteners

I am not joking. I believe I have been successful at finding some good info about anchors and utterly terrible at communicating the info.



Steve

Dah! Why think like that? I think what you are saying is that you choose to challenge yourself to do better. But to be that hard on yourself is not favorable to me as a fan of your videos. As I feel you do a excellent job in all facets of your videos. Could you improve? I don’t know.

Your videos are for educational purposes. I suppose you could dress wired, talk different, and act some kind of a Hollywood actor part, but would that make what you do with anchors any better?

Sam

[Panope]

Originally Posted by Tetepare

It sounds like the anchor didn’t fail, the bottom did. A delta or Bruce all globbed with mud won’t reset either.

True.

However, a particular Rocna anchor that I tested was the worst at resetting (in a particular seabed) compared to all other anchors that I have tested (I have tested most of the popular designs).

Steve

[Boatyarddog]

Originally Posted by Palarran

Today my Rocna 55 broke out of hard mud and didn't reset. This happened in 11' of water with somewhere around 90' of scope. We were Med moored and the port stern kissed the quay causing a small amount of fiberglass damage. There was about 25 knots of wind on the starboard beam at about 60 degrees. Location Argostoli, Kefalonia, Greece.

I actually thought I'd broken my shackle as I pulled in the chain as it came so easy across the bottom. The tip of the anchor was a solid ball of mud, straight across, but not above the base of the roll bar. My anchor roller is about 4' above the water so it should have been a 6:1 scope.

My reason for posting is two fold. First, its reset my confidence with the anchor, which previous to this I would have considered faultless and bomb proof. And second, I've read so many post they have never had their anchor drag or trip no matter if it was used 400 times per year for 50 years. Well, I confess, mine did.

To round out the story, the only other two boats that were anchored also broke free at the same time. One with an Ultra and one with a Delta. No idea on scope in their cases. Maybe its mud here over a hardpan bottom and therefore didn't allow the anchor to bury anymore. I don't know but it does show the one major fault of the new gen anchors which is when they do break free, if plugged with mud, won't reset.

Lesson is NOTHING is Faultless and Bombproof.
I think that a first lesson really.
SV Cloud Duster

[Tayana42]

Originally Posted by Panope

The reason they don't watch the videos is because they (for the most part) suck.



-boring

-endless hours of mud

-poor editing

-poor choice of words

-poor on camera/microphone demeanor

-a voice that irritates some liseteners



I am not joking. I believe I have been successful at finding some good info about anchors and utterly terrible at communicating the info.



Steve

Steve, the tests you have conducted and your videos are extremely useful and greatly appreciated. You communicate quite clearly. Please don’t lose your enthusiasm or confidence in this project.

I believe your data and I believe my eyes when I watch your videos. Like many other people I would hold your data in great regard when purchasing my next anchor. I’m still using my 55lb Ronca 25 because where I usually anchor it has worked well and not suffered from fouling with a mud ball in the bottom I find here. However, I am much more aware of its limitations and inherent weaknesses than I was before your testing. I keep a much more alert anchor watch if wind shifts are likely. I, for one, want to thank you (and Noelex77’s underwater still photos) for your invaluable service to all cruisers.

[Moontide]

My normal rule of thumb with an all chain rode is the depth of the water plus 100' Has worked in 6' of water and in 100' with squalls. I am much more comfortable with 100' of chain mostly on the bottom vs. 50' in 6' of water.


Can be a little pain sometimes in crowed anchorages, but at least I don't drag.

[sv_pelagia]

Originally Posted by Panope

The reason they don't watch the videos is because they (for the most part) suck.



-boring

-endless hours of mud

-poor editing

-poor choice of words

-poor on camera/microphone demeanor

-a voice that irritates some liseteners



I am not joking. I believe I have been successful at finding some good info about anchors and utterly terrible at communicating the info.



Steve

If I was like a certain few posters on CF, I'd respond something like "What a load of ****!"

But I wont, 'cause:

Your videos are excellent; not boring
Nothing wrong with your voice
Demeanor is relaxed and easy
You've been a fine communicator.

PLEASE, keep it up!

This from a Rocna fan....

[rslifkin]

I've got no issue watching through the videos and gathering information from them. I could see it being a bit much to try to watch through 20 of them in a row, but watching one at a time isn't boring for us nerdy types.

[jim King]

I'm wondering how close to you were the other two boats that broke loose on the quay? Might they have crossed your chain and caused your anchor to break loose. Also, a large cat like yours will have much more windage with its high sides and bridge deck and with winds of 25 knots at 60 degrees to your beam it will put much more pressure on your hull than if you were head to wind. You might have been safer anchored out and swinging free into the wind.
I was sailing down from Lekada last week and saw numerous chains crossed and fouled along crowded quays. It always made for an interesting departure.
cheers,
Jim

[SV__Grace]

Originally Posted by Panope

Yes I did.
And I found the same fault with not less than 3 Rocna anchors.
And modified a Rocna to correct the problem.
And found the holding power of Roncas in SOME cohesive seabeds to be very low.

Steve, your videos may be boring to the average short attention span, but as someone who loves anchoring, cruises full time and lives on the hook I have found your videos and testing procedures to be the best possible (under the conditions, for a private solo guy that isn't backed by corporate money and resources) and the best available anchor testing videos. I love being able to see how the anchor behaves in your testing videos, a rare opportunity- where else can we see this other than manufacturer marketing propaganda? THANK YOU!!

Your testing convinced me of the vulnerability of scoop anchors to reset failures when they get fouled with mud, and having had two Rocna roll bar versions and two Vulcans (on various boats) I can attest to the copious amount of mud that sticks to their scoop fluke and while I haven't had a reset failure I became convinced to sell my Vulcan and get an Excel.

Your testing of the Excel was very helpful to me and along with the info and advice from John Harries at Attainable Adventure Cruising/Morgans Cloud as well as Practical Sailor, all indicators seemed to point to the Excel being the perfect anchor for me, and after a year or so, so far so good. I'm impressed with the 70/30 convex/concave design (hybrid 70% plow and 30% scoop), it holds like the dickens, sets reliably and easily the first time, and does not get fouled with mud or bring up a big ball of mud like the scoops.

Actually, John's #1 top recommendation is the Spade (which you rank highly as well), which is a scoop, but without a roll bar it doesn't seem prone to get so fouled with mud. I'm seriously considering getting one just to have the two best anchors available in today's world and test them side by side for myself. Gotta get to a place where I can receive a shipment and am not ready to leave the SJI yet!

[EmeraldCoastSailor]

Your post reminds me that hard mud sucks almost always and that I have been having a similar "I got a Rochna now so I am somewhat bulletproof" thoughts as well. I upgraded from a 35# Delta to a 44# Rochna and am feeling pretty good for my little boat. Interestingly, during a direct hit from Hurricane Michael, in wonderfully gooey mud of Watson Bayou, a different Delta 35# dove 14' after dragging 200' to the west . It finally have hooked on something or perhaps just hit solid earth, but once set it didn't drag an inch south. The biggest winds were from the north. I am not giving away the Delta 35.

[Clivevon]

Originally Posted by Quebramar

Candid question please: a Bruce 15kg came with my new-to-me boat. I did not have much experience with it when I replaced it with a Spade 20kg. Then I posted it for sale for $100 on a much active platform, did not get a single reaction.
Is Bruce that bad?

Try $10 next time. Its not to do with how bad. $100 was just way way way way way overpriced for that anchor. I’m trying to stay polite…

[Hermia II]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Get a Bruce.. You Know it makes Sense..

I'm also a Bruce fan, having used CQR's and Delta

[dannc]

Originally Posted by Panope

The reason they don't watch the videos is because they (for the most part) suck.

-boring
-endless hours of mud
-poor editing
-poor choice of words
-poor on camera/microphone demeanor
-a voice that irritates some liseteners

I am not joking. I believe I have been successful at finding some good info about anchors and utterly terrible at communicating the info.

Steve

Nothing wrong with the videos or the communicator!

Now, if you had a multi million dollar budget so you could hire professional film crew, editors, a voice actor, divers, rent the highest quality cameras, lenses, microphones, stabilization systems, etc, THEN and ONLY THEN could someone have a legitimate compliant.

What you, along with Nolex77 and SeaWorthyLass, have documented, have done more to further anchoring knowledge than anyone.

Given that other respected sources of information are quoting your work says something.

Later,
Dan

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Hermia II

I'm also a Bruce fan, having used CQR's and Delta

But it's gotta be the real deal.. the look alike just don't come close..