Looking For Ideas - May Give Up

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Hard to say.
- How far is it from completion?
- Is the buyer interested in a project boat? (this type is often looking to drive a hard bargain).
- How much money/work would you need to finish it out? Can it reasonably be used with a lesser amount of work?
- What is the realistic selling price if finished? Home built boats typically take a pretty hard hit in terms of resale value as most buyers won't even consider it presuming you didn't know what you were doing. Those that do look will want a deal because they will run into the same problem when they go to sell. The challenge is getting a buyer who can see the quality of your work and not be low balling you.

A lot of partially built boats wind up rotting away when the owner isn't willing to accept reality. You might start with your suggested numbers (or even a bit higher) but if you don't get much interest after a few months, start lowering the price...It goes back to the old saw about the value being what a willing seller and willing buyer agree to.

That’s the weird part about this. It’s not really home built. I mean, I did an amazing job with attention to detail, but I didn’t even do all of it. I had a guy that used to work at Hinckley. And a guy that used to work at Catalina. Those people worked helping me full time. So, it was a professionally built boat. Everything was done to perfection basically. Those guys didn’t Let me get away with any mistakes at all. Ha ha.

But yeah. I know. It’s what the market will bear. Just kind of trying to come up with some numbers to look at the RV situation actually.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by hpeer

Sucks.

Is it capable of being motored? Running lights, anchor lights, anchor, cleats? Can you carry your mast with you on deck?

My 2¢, maybe over valued, is that selling it where it is will only reduce the price.

If you have to move it, put it someplace where it can be finished.

In the process you will develop a different relationship with the boat which will inform your final decision.

But it strikes me you have only one choice today…..

Sell As Is Where Is
OR
move to a DIY yard.

Once moved you can decide whether to sell or complete or something else.

You are eating an elephant, take one bite at a time. Just get the order correct.

OK. Thanks for that elephant advice. That is correct. Just trying to come up with some strategy. Right now I’m not at the boat. And it’s all set where it is for the next few months. So I don’t have to rush it. I’m just trying to come up with a bit of a strategy so when I return, I can proceed.

[rslifkin]

If you decide you want to stay with a boat (but not the current one), thinking about the motorcycle thing, I think I have an answer: a sport fish. Ideally one with a fairly simple interior where any hidden spaces can be opened up within reasonable effort to permit periodic cleaning or at least enough access for mold killing.

I see a couple of big advantages for you: you could build a davit setup to hoist a motorcycle or 2 in/out of the cockpit easily enough (and the cockpit would make a good space to keep them). And they're planing hulls, so when the fuel budget permits you have the option of going faster if you're making a trip that's more about the destination.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Chotu

That’s the weird part about this. It’s not really home built. I mean, I did an amazing job with attention to detail, but I didn’t even do all of it. I had a guy that used to work at Hinckley. And a guy that used to work at Catalina. Those people worked helping me full time. So, it was a professionally built boat. Everything was done to perfection basically. Those guys didn’t Let me get away with any mistakes at all. Ha ha.

But yeah. I know. It’s what the market will bear. Just kind of trying to come up with some numbers to look at the RV situation actually.

It really isn't about the quality of the build. It's about the reputation of DIY builders.

While it's possible to do a DIY that makes a production boat look like junk...the average DIY is even worse...but now the buyer has to sort thru it all...just easier to buy the devil you know.

[Chotu]

Wow!! I like this idea. Very cool. I only just went through this link to see.

4x4 RV / Adventure Vehicle: 4x4 RV / Adventure Vehicle

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Wow!! I like this idea. Very cool. I only just went through this link to see.

4x4 RV / Adventure Vehicle: 4x4 RV / Adventure Vehicle

Something like that or a converted school bus would be exactly my idea of how to do the RV thing right. Most off the shelf RVs and trailers strike me as being cheap and poorly built (even the expensive ones) in an excessive search for fanciness and light weight rather than caring about good design.

[MicHughV]

These $$ value numbers....does that include the labor ???

I'm often asked how much it cost to build my boat. I can throw numbers out there to the nth degree. I know exactly how much everything costs...material costs !!!

But my own labor....my own blood, sweat and tears , hard to put a number on that.

Working backwards, after I sold my boat, I pulled out all the hard costs, which I knew, and divided the remainder by the number of hours I guestimated I had in the boat.

t'was a sad number......less than minimum wage....a lot less.

Building your own boat...quite simply...is a labor of love. Your own time simply does not count towards the value of your boat.

Some options I would consider, if it were me ...sell the boat, get what you can and "buy" a smaller" boat. 50' by any measure is a large boat. There is nothing stopping you from getting a decent 35-40' boat and off you go. You kill two birds with one stone....(1) no more boat work...(2) You get to go sailing....

[wolfgal]

Originally Posted by Chotu

You know what? This is where my head is right now. I know it’s an annoying thread. I know I keep flip-flopping around. But that’s kind of how these things go. I have to settle on something at some point but explore all of the options. .

if it helps any, with big life decisions (such as this one), i tend to go about making them in a similar way. i tend to research all the potential outcomes i can imagine, while allowing time for my inner compass, my gut feeling to (hopefully) step in to guide me. sometimes, when the method works, there is a sweet-spot click, and i know that the choice i'm making is the best one among all the possibilities.

and you know, it does drive my friends nuts, especially as i tend to look pretty far down the road, which is a bit like checking the weather forecast too early.

flip-flopping, you bet. over-thinking it? yes. paralysis by analysis, yes, definitely sometimes... and all of the above, until i find the solution. and i do usually wind up with a decision that makes sense in five years time. however this method also helps me avoid hitting life's brick walls.

...which is why this thread is great: so many people are brainstorming with you (not against you). good job!

oh yes, Mr. Nobody is the name of the film to watch... as its main character exemplifies this process literally, as his life story splits and continues along the paths created by initial choices he made. it is an exploration of how we make meaningful choices and how to choose well and the importance of putting all of our own very personal and meaningful reasons into the decision we make. Brilliant film. good science too.

all of this to say, keep at it, Chotu. so many of us are sincerely wishing the best possible outcome, whatever that may be


wolfie

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

These $$ value numbers....does that include the labor ???

I'm often asked how much it cost to build my boat. I can throw numbers out there to the nth degree. I know exactly how much everything costs...material costs !!!

But my own labor....my own blood, sweat and tears , hard to put a number on that.

Working backwards, after I sold my boat, I pulled out all the hard costs, which I knew, and divided the remainder by the number of hours I guestimated I had in the boat.

t'was a sad number......less than minimum wage....a lot less.

Building your own boat...quite simply...is a labor of love. Your own time simply does not count towards the value of your boat.

Some options I would consider, if it were me ...sell the boat, get what you can and "buy" a smaller" boat. 50' by any measure is a large boat. There is nothing stopping you from getting a decent 35-40' boat and off you go. You kill two birds with one stone....(1) no more boat work...(2) You get to go sailing....

No, the price does not include my labor. It does not include the materials. It does not include anything. That’s not how you determine the price for a boat.

The price for a boat is determined by what the market will pay for it. That’s how I’ve always done it. I don’t look at what I have put in. That doesn’t matter. It’s irrelevant, No matter how much suffering in pain and money I have put in, it doesn’t matter. It’s only what the boat is worth. You can’t be emotional when you are buying and selling boats. At least that’s what I have learned in my life.

So, I think the boat itself is worth $100,000. Just like it is. Completely divorced from me or my effort or money put into it.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by wolfgal

if it helps any, with big life decisions (such as this one), i tend to go about making them in a similar way. i tend to research all the potential outcomes i can imagine, while allowing time for my inner compass, my gut feeling to (hopefully) step in to guide me. sometimes, when the method works, there is a sweet-spot click, and i know that the choice i'm making is the best one among all the possibilities.

and you know, it does drive my friends nuts, especially as i tend to look pretty far down the road, which is a bit like checking the weather forecast too early.

flip-flopping, you bet. over-thinking it? yes. paralysis by analysis, yes, definitely sometimes... and all of the above, until i find the solution. and i do usually wind up with a decision that makes sense in five years time. however this method also helps me avoid hitting life's brick walls.

...which is why this thread is great: so many people are brainstorming with you (not against you). good job!

oh yes, Mr. Nobody is the name of the film to watch... as its main character exemplifies this process literally, as his life story splits and continues along the paths created by initial choices he made. it is an exploration of how we make meaningful choices and how to choose well and the importance of putting all of our own very personal and meaningful reasons into the decision we make. Brilliant film. good science too.

all of this to say, keep at it, Chotu. so many of us are sincerely wishing the best possible outcome, whatever that may be


wolfie

Thank you so much. That was a very inspiring post. And I am very very thankful for this community and the support you are all giving me even though it’s not even necessarily going to end up with a boat in the end. This will be an interesting thread for people to read as they decide whether to swallow the anchor someday. It’s kind of a tough moment in life. When you have spent your whole life on boats, but then realize there’s just not that much of it left (since decades just fly by on boats) and you still want to see so much more. More than where a boat can take you in that amount of time.

I really like Valhalla’s idea. The one with the Fuso truck and the travel trailer combined. I have taken that to a little bit more of a conclusion in between posting . And it seems to fit so very well. Those trucks have an ability to carry enormous weight. You could certainly get a travel trailer on there, a motorcycle, and probably even stuff a Laser or Hobie cat in there somewhere. Ha ha

But seriously, thank you everyone so much. So many of you have so many wise things to add to this through all of your life experiences. It’s sad, but I think I’m probably going to have to move on from cruising. It’s only the beginning of August, and this month is to make the decision, but the more realistic choice is to move on to different things. Cruising has been a central point of my life for the last 30 years. Much of that spent at anchor. The damn heart attack has me thinking that I don’t want to look back and see that that’s all I did. Doing this type of RV that Valhalla was describing and that I am really leaning toward, I will have a lot more free time to pursue other things. Boats are great, but wow do they take up your entire life. Ha ha. I’m sure every single person here understands that.

[Sand crab]

I've done thousands of miles 4 wheeling and that Fuso is not what you really want. It's too high and too wide so not good for 4 wheeling. Probably under powered too compared to a diesel pickup. You would be better off getting a pickup with a caboover, drop the camper off and go 4 wheeling. Or maybe a 4 wheel drive something and a pull behind camper, or even a motorhome pulling a Jeep.

[Westcliffe01]

Chotu, time is the one thing we can never get back. I went through a divorce that dragged on for over 2 years and finally went to trial. My ex wife perjured herself on the stand so many times, but it didnt matter, she was a RN running a cancer clinic, with a recent re-diagnosis and had the sympathy of the judge.

The judgement was final in March 2016. I was given back possession of the house I had been evicted from more than a year before along with new debt to the tune of about $40k for arrears mortgage payments from her squatting in the house without paying any bills. She blew all the money in her 401k then pleaded poverty and was given close to another $40k out of my account. She trashed the house by locking dogs in the different rooms for days so that they could soil all of the flooring and destroyed most of the major appliances by breaking doors off hinges and similar shenanigans. And I had to pay alimony for 24 months. My prospects looked pretty grim.

I got a 401k loan against what was left in my account to pay off the nearly $40k in arrears payments since the house was in foreclosure at that point. After a couple weeks worth of battle I squared things away with the mortgage company. So now I had the regular mortgage of about $1500 to pay in addition to the 401k loan at another $1300 per month. I had 2 car notes at close to $400 each, but only 2 years to go because I never do a car note for over 3 years. I had been renting an apartment for $630 per month but was able to move back into my house so that removed that bill. I started fixing up the house starting with cleaning all the carpets and fixing or replacing the appliances. This included the lawn tractor which had been left outside in the weather for more than 2 years.

At this point I met and started dating a girl to whom I am meanwhile married. The thriftiest and prettiest woman I have ever had the fortune to be with. We have a big age gap and its a mixed race marriage. She analysed our situation and told me that to get financially back on track we needed to downsize and get rid of the house with its big note. In our area no houses had been built in nearly 12 years following the housing crash and there was basically no inventory and certainly not much that would offer a saving, or so I thought.

She got to work on it and found a 100 year old abandoned house that was owned by a bank. It was in the inner city which was not something I was keen on but it was listed for $30k. I got a $15k unsecured loan and she sold some of her best clothes, shoes and purses and dug under the mattress and came up with another $15k in cash in a couple of weeks. We put in our cash offer and the home was ours in a couple of weeks. It then took the next 2 years to gut the place and renovate it all on a cash basis. No drywall, just plaster and lath. Fortunately no horsehair.. No insulation. Wall cavities full of coal dust. Rusted out cast iron drain pipes. Copper pipes split every 3 feet from nt being drained and winterized. Wiring on ceramic insulators with rubber and asbestos insulation.... It was a heluva struggle.

Paid off the 401k loan. Paid off the car notes, any free money went into the renovation. Now 3 years in, its mostly finished and totally livable. No mortgage. I'm now renovating my house since the market has improved to the extent that I could actually make some money selling my house (was underwater for over 12 years). Hopefully in the next couple of months it will be gone and that is the last debt I will ever see. When you are in the struggle it is hard sometimes to keep up the motivation and the will to keep making the sacrifices. All our cars have over 100k miles. The most expensive car we own probably cost us 1/3 of the new shiny cars parked outside the neighbors rental houses. But we are now at the point where we can start saving at a rate more than double what we had previously. In 2-3 years we should have enough cash to build pretty much whatever retirement house I could possibly want.

My opportunity to get my pilots license has probably passed. But maybe that could become my wife's dream now, and we may effectively accomplish nearly the same thing. Think carefully about your dream. Maybe try a stinkboat and do a bit of the loop, just to try it. Not too big, single engine, displacement speed. A bit more doing, a bit less making ? Best of luck.

Originally Posted by Chotu

These are good thoughts, Wolfie. I have always had sort of bad luck with things so luckily, I’ve learned to just press on. I’m just getting tired is all. I’m losing the will to fight. At least to fight this fight. Other fights are very easy in comparison.

Believe it or not, one of my aspirations that I’ve been putting off for all these boatbuilding years is to go over your way for a year or two. Maybe stay. I’m a dual citizen, but American born. I planned to sail back over there, but maybe a caravan or motorcycle tour or even just renting a place has its merits.

Asia is also high on the list since I’ve never been. I’d like to actually see all these places for an extended period of time and all my life thought boating was my key to it. Plus I rather enjoy traveling with my home and all belongings. Now, I’m questioning that original plan.

I really looked into the RV thing for world travel but there are these emissions stickers in the EU and the system is a mess for bringing a vehicle there. Basically all RVs that I’d bring are diesel. They cannot be driven in many places at all and you need to pay all these stickers for different areas to drive around the continent. Seems like my diesel based RV would be unwelcome in Europe even though the size of it wouldn’t be much of an issue. It’s quite small for USA standards

I’m going to just put it all out there too. My relationship is good, loving, but my girlfriend suffers from worsening depression. We were supposed to go see California for her this summer, but her depression is so bad (and hasn’t responded to any treatments) that she decided to cancel the California part since she cannot enjoy it. Opting instead for a restful summer in the mountains. We are spending this vacation time just relaxing and thinking. This thread is part of my thinking and process.

I have to say, accepting the financial loss of selling this boat (not to mention the time loss) is a heavy weight. Something not easy to get over.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Sand crab

I've done thousands of miles 4 wheeling and that Fuso is not what you really want. It's too high and too wide so not good for 4 wheeling. Probably under powered too compared to a diesel pickup. You would be better off getting a pickup with a caboover, drop the camper off and go 4 wheeling. Or maybe a 4 wheel drive something and a pull behind camper, or even a motorhome pulling a Jeep.

I don’t doubt you for a minute.

I don’t do any 4 wheeling. Lol. I don’t know anything about it. I don’t want to get stuck. It’s not really my thing.

If I want to go off road, that’s what the motorcycle is for.

The idea for the Fuso is to carry a very nice travel trailer as a massive truck camper. I had already toyed around with the idea of doing this before, but I didn’t like it because I didn’t feel I was going to be able to park it anywhere. Or to get into the small places that I was talking about earlier in the thread like Montreal. Now, that I am back on motorcycles again a bit, I realize that’s the best dinghy. Not a car. Before motorcycles, I had been thinking I needed to either tow a car, get it on a flatbed, or just not have any other transportation aside from the main vehicle. Getting into these motorcycles again lately, I realize they are the best choice. So I don’t have to get the big giant thing into small areas. I can leave it outside and take the motorcycle in. And the motorcycle is what’s good for off road. I’m basically doing some adventure motorcycling right now this week in the mountains trying to clear the mind and work through these decisions. And I love it.

So it might just be a 2 Wheel Drive Fuso. Possibly one of the 4wd just so I have the extra option if too far down a dirt road and it gets a little bad. But mostly i see it as a good platform for the road and something I can ship globally if that becomes a plan at some point.

I already have a truck camper like you do. Prefab. Not self built. It’s pretty good. But it feels a bit small sometimes And it’s an old one. It’s pretty dated. It’s definitely doing the job, but am upgrade would be nice to help me forget about the emotional toll of selling the boat I’ve poured myself into over all these years.

[JPA Cate]

Hello, Chotu,

I've held off writing because I'd really like to help, but my personal style is very confrontive, and I really don't want to make things worse.... I'm going to make a few comments for your consideration, and I'm hoping they're not too hard to hear.... And, I'd like to add that i think you need to hold off and get emotionally stabilized since the heart attack. Dreaming about stuff is fine, but change in itself is stressful, and you want to be kind to yourself.

Sometimes people will focus on anything outside whatever their "real" problem is in order to distract themselves from it. It is not usually a conscious process, but operates just a little below our awareness. It helps people hold back from scary decisions.

Here is a quote from Narfi's post up thread. "A thought from someone that doesn't know you or any of the specifics, (and so could be completely off base) but perhaps something to think about. My wife is much happier the more time I spend with her and the more my 'hobbies' and interests keep me home. You are enjoying your trips in the mountains right now, and before that your obsession with boat building (not judging, I can get as single minded focus driven as anyone)..... could slowing down and focusing on doing things together brighten your outlooks on the future? I know that for us, her happiness is time around me, and my happiness is her happiness..... so the saying 'when momma aint happy....' is very true. Depression is a real thing and I do not want to lighten it in any way (by blaming anyone etc.... for something that can be out of our control) just a thought that by focusing on her your own outlook may start looking better?"

Here, Narfi is most tactfully approaching the issue of your girl friend's depression. If she is not a "keeper" for you (reason doesn't matter at all), the best thing you can do for her is to terminate the relationship before it gets to the bitterness stage. It is not an easy thing to do -- don't ask -- but it will be for the best for both of you. And if she is a "keeper" for you (reasons don't matter at all), then that will be the best place to put your energies, and will need a different plan.

Otherwise, I think you will be best served by doing the minimum necessary, to get your boat going, and use it for a bit. Get some enjoyment for all the effort and pain, and then move on to whatever attracts you more, maybe even write out a bucket list. Travel by sailboat is, as you say, slow (for most of us, anyway), and it allows time for contemplation and appreciation of the natural environment. It is an in-depth way of visiting other cultures. But not appropriate for you, perhaps, if you desire brief exposure to the maximum variety possible. Whichever you prefer, it will make life easier if that is your good lady's preference as well.

Hope this helps.

Ann

[Chotu]

Ann, that was just fine. You had me thinking I was going to be getting a thrashing. Lol. Thank you for the post.

I hesitate to put all of the personal details on the forum when it comes down to my relationship. Suffice to say we do everything together. All the time. I’m not off at the boat. She’s there with me. I’m not off in the mountains. She’s here with me. We are doing everything together every day pretty much. In fact, we both just decided to do something different for a couple days so that we could think about these topics ourselves and separate what each individual wants from what we want as a couple.

I’m really hesitant to talk about her depression here, but it has nothing to do with me. It’s from her severely traumatic upbringing. When I say severe, I don’t think anyone on here could contemplate half the things she went through, Nor what a sensitive person she is and that instead of a rising against it and rebelling, she just took it all in and believed it. She has severe, severe emotional damage from all of that. No drugs worked, no therapy has worked so far, half of my life is spent trying to help her. So I think I’m doing a lot of focusing on her actually. This isn’t the typical story that you hear where the guy is off doing his own thing neglecting the woman. In fact, one of my problems in life as I put the other person’s needs ahead of mine. I hate to get into this stuff. But that is one of the problems I have she has pointed it out, and I’m trying to address it. I built that boat for an ex, this new girlfriend wanted me to continue the boat so we had a cool place to live. I don’t know what I have done for myself or what I have done for others. Mostly I have done nothing for myself and everything for others. That’s just the type of person I am. I’m trying to change that and work on that.

I really didn’t want to post this personal stuff in the forum, but since people are gravitating that way, that’s the opposite of what the real situation is actually. Right now, I’m trying to think of what I want. Personally. Without considering her feelings at all. She is doing the same. But she doesn’t have trouble with that like I do. Then, in a couple days, we will come back together and discuss what we came up with. In fact, it may take me until the end of August to figure out what I want to do because I’ve never done that in my entire life. This is the first time. As bold and strong as I seem on the forum, and as much of a Type A personality as I am with work type things, when it comes to a relationship, I give my all to the other person. To my own detriment sometimes.