Looking For Ideas - May Give Up

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Sand crab

I second the minimalist aspect. Last year during the Covid shut downI built a cabover camper for my truck. No plumbing. Theres a porta potty and solar for a tiny inverter for charging the phone and laptop. I went all over the PNW, Olympic and Rainer NPs and the beaches.
I recently purchased an EBike. It does 20mph on its own and also has a 20 mile range. If you are pedaling then you can go faster and further. It weighs 69 pounds. I really like it.

Damn!!!!

That’s a beauty!!

And light enough to use in a 150/1500 tuck too?

How much water tankage, fresh and grey?

Construction?? Wood frame and aluminum or stainless skin? Any sandwich construction used?

[Sand crab]

There's no plumbing so no tanks. I already had the F150 and most cabovers are way too heave so had to build one. I hand selected 2x4s for the framing and ripped them in half. The 2x2s were the same price as 2x4s but really crappy. I glued and stapled 5mm ply to the studs and then glued the thinnest aluminum sheets to the ply using polyurethane spray foam. I put about 20 concrete pavers on top to keep everything tight while it set up which was really fast. The roof is the same alu. It weighs only 773 pounds. There is a full size also known as a double bed cross ways above the cab. I made an oversized door to get my bike inside. I raised the kitchen counter so the bike would fit under. I already had a Coleman propane stove so it went right in there too. I moved back east and sold the truck and camper and am now enjoying my ebike. You get a sense of freedom with those because you can travel so far so fast with only as much effort as you want to put into it. There are lots of folks with those on their RVs. You might want to consider it. I got an Ecotric Hammer because they are in stock in the US but there are many others

[CarinaPDX]

When I wintered on the Isle of Wight 1997-1998 I met a German fellow (Dieter) who had a teak dhow built for himself in India (a whole story in itself) and he wanted to take a motorbike along for adventuring ashore. His solution was to have a waterproof bag made that encapsulated the bike, which served to protect the bike from salt water under way and also provided the means to get it ashore: he floated it ashore. The bag was made by a company in Cowes that made flexible tanks, and so was made with the very durable material that large tanks are made of. They fit in a long drysuit sealing zipper. And they attached straps for lifting. He could lift the bike with the boom and swing it over the side and into the water, then tow it ashore. His ultimate goal was to explore Madagascar on his bike. It would be interesting to know how that turned out. Perhaps this can work for you.

Greg

[Chotu]

Hi everyone. I want to thank you all for responding to this post. I am out riding around doing some of that adventure motorcycle riding right now. Trying to clear out the head. Thinking about a lot of these ideas. I will get back to this thread in a short time.

[Narfi]

Hey Chotu, sorry to hear your streak of bad luck is getting you down. Sounds like your GF might not be the only one struggling with depression right now :/

A thought from someone that doesn't know you or any of the specifics,(and so could be completely off base) but perhaps something to think about. My wife is much happier the more time I spend with her and the more my 'hobbies' and interests keep me home. You are enjoying your trips in the mountains right now, and before that your obsession with boat building (not judging, I can get as single minded focus driven as anyone)..... could slowing down and focusing on doing things together brighten your outlooks on the future? I know that for us, her happiness is time around me, and my happiness is her happiness..... so the saying 'when momma aint happy....' is very true. Depression is a real thing and I do not want to lighten it in any way (by blaming anyone etc.... for something that can be out of our control) just a thought that by focusing on her your own outlook may start looking better?

Anyways back to what I do know something about, analytical thought....
I really like your thoughts on simplicity and very much understand your drive not to give up.
Can you put together your short list of what is needed to get your boat functional at the bare minimum needed?
No mast or sails. No elaborate bathrooms or countertops, good permenant transom mounts for your motors, the minimum electrical and plumbing needed for coastal cruising. I am guessing you already have open cubby holes and a flat spot for a mattress. etc..... A list of the bare minimum needed to move aboard with your gf.

Take that list and divide it up into two parts, 1. Those easily contracted out and 2. Those you can complete to your own standards within 2 months.

If that is possible, and you have the funds to pay for the contracted parts..... then work at simplifying your life even more and pouring energy into the GF. You have the rest of your life to finish all the unnecessary bits and peices for glamor. And to be honest, you will reach a stage where you are bored and want some projects, but for now you need to see a light at the end of the tunnel and I beleive you are within reach of that if you are able to change the height of the bar for now.

I hope however you decide, selling, finishing, contacting out to finish, etc... that you can find a happy soloution for both of you to enjoy a fulfilling life.

[MicHughV]

It's an interesting dilemma....

When I was building my boat, I got to know about a dozen other home boat builders....all men off course...this was back when building your boat was still a " thing"....

Out of that dozen, I think all but one, got divorced.....invariably, the wife left.

And I can understand why. Building your own boat becomes a 24/7 thing....day and night...it's such a large and time consuming project, that one has little time left over for relationship building.

For most home builders, the project invariably takes several years to complete. That's several years of dusty, dirty, sweaty work. I don't think I had a single item of clothing that did not have some or other stain, burn make, glue, etc on it.

I should have taken some time out to work on my marriage, but I didn't, with predicable results.

[Chotu]

I have a side question that I’m going to include in the thread rather than start a new thread. Some of this decision is financial. Some of it is emotional.

What do you think a boat like the one I have would sell for?

It’s the same boat that Grit has on this forum. It’s not complete however. But it does have a rig sitting nearby it. It also has some scrapes and a couple little chunks out of the bows and stern from hurricane damage. When I say chunks, I mean like 3x 1 inch little piece knocked off. Nothing penetrating the hull. And some scratches down the side.

It also does not have an interior. Just a little bit of stuff. A galley, rudimentary galley, and that’s about it. Plus a nearly finished shower. It is capable of traveling wherever on the motors. All of that stuff works. It’s able to be moved around wherever.

What would a boat like this be worth? It would be great if everybody here could just toss out a number.

[Narfi]

That is difficult..... from pricing around, materials or 'kit' you have about 120k and for unfinished projects like that no one will pay for the time you put in and still want a discount on the materials. So if you found exactly the right person who wanted that exact project maybe 100k? everyone else will want a (very) heafty discount.

Here is one refrence,
https://www.offshorecatamarans.com/about-264027.html

Last fall pricing for a cnc cut Schionning Solitaire kit (not including the heafty cost of plans or shipping) was around 125k with the exchange rate at that time.

Boat prices are up though, maybe you could get lucky and find just the dreamer with the money and disalusionment of the rat race to give you top dollar

[Chotu]

That’s pretty much what I was thinking. About $100,000-$120,000. I don’t think that’s top dollar. That’s just a fair price.

I’d like to see what other people think also.

You see, then there is the possibility of just finishing it and selling it for significantly more. Because once it’s done, it’s worth a lot.

Such a tough call.

[hpeer]

Don’t you also have the difficulty of the yard no longer allowing DIY? Or was that a different thread?

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by hpeer

Don’t you also have the difficulty of the yard no longer allowing DIY? Or was that a different thread?

Yes. I think that’s right. The yard doesn’t look to be allowing the DIY anymore. Basically I am not at the yard now, and they released a new rental agreement. It’s awful. So, I’m not signing that. It remains to be seen if they will enforce any of it, but, I can’t sign something that says I’m not allowed to work on the boat at all. So I would have to move it.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Believe it or not, one of my aspirations that I’ve been putting off for all these boatbuilding years is to go over your way for a year or two. Maybe stay. I’m a dual citizen, but American born. I planned to sail back over there, but maybe a caravan or motorcycle tour or even just renting a place has its merits.

Asia is also high on the list since I’ve never been. I’d like to actually see all these places for an extended period of time and all my life thought boating was my key to it. Plus I rather enjoy traveling with my home and all belongings. Now, I’m questioning that original plan.

I really looked into the RV thing for world travel but there are these emissions stickers in the EU and the system is a mess for bringing a vehicle there. Basically all RVs that I’d bring are diesel. They cannot be driven in many places at all and you need to pay all these stickers for different areas to drive around the continent. Seems like my diesel based RV would be unwelcome in Europe even though the size of it wouldn’t be much of an issue. It’s quite small for USA standards

...

I have to say, accepting the financial loss of selling this boat (not to mention the time loss) is a heavy weight. Something not easy to get over.

I suggest stepping back and deciding what you want to be doing. What are your goals in life?

Is your goal to be a boat builder or go out and travel?

If it's to build a boat, expect it to be long, hard and expensive. Space on or near the water is rarely cheap, particularly if you expect power and water so you can work on it (and as you are finding, the marinas have little interest in DIY people saving money). If it takes another 10yrs, you could eat up a lot of money just paying for storage only to find your health doesn't allow you to use the boat once it's ready. If you simply enjoy building, that may be a good option. If it's really just a means to an end, cut your losses and look for an alternative solution.

If the boat is a means to an end (ie: to go travel), there are better options.
- An RV is a fraction of the cost of your boat. Trying to make a single one viable for round the world travel is where you run into issues. Instead consider getting one and traveling around North America for a few years and then if you want to do Europe, sell it and pick up something in Europe (don't get hung up on diesel restrictions...RV's are big business in Europe and aren't going away any time soon...you just won't be able to drive into the city center, which you don't want to do anyway).
- Also consider apartment rentals. It avoids the whole hassle of transporting your home around the world.
- See if you can find an existing smaller but simpler boat where you can get access to all the surfaces to clean the mold.

If you are dead set on a universal RV consider something like the following:
- Fusos are available around the world, so it should be possible to get them worked on just about anywhere.
- Costs for used ones are pretty reasonable. Try to get a flatbed tow truck version as it comes with a 3 point mount so racking doesn't tear the trailer box apart. A 20-24ft travel trailer is generally pretty cheap (new from under $20k) You need to pull the axles and make some modifications to the plumbing but pretty straight forward and quick.
- High ground clearance is the main thing you need, so even a 4x2 can get to some pretty out of the way places (rarely do people take overlander trucks truly off roading).
- A 20-24ft travel trailer is much more spacious than a truck camper and US pickups are rare outside N. America so parts and work become more problematic.
- It wouldn't be hard to put a rack on for a motorcycle (and the truck should be able to handle the extra weight)

4x4 RV / Adventure Vehicle: 4x4 RV / Adventure Vehicle

We are between boats at the moment. Sitting in the RV and plans are to head to Europe in October for 3 months before heading to Asia to finish out the winter. In the spring, we are planning to drive to Alaska with the RV.

[hpeer]

Sucks.

Is it capable of being motored? Running lights, anchor lights, anchor, cleats? Can you carry your mast with you on deck?

My 2¢, maybe over valued, is that selling it where it is will only reduce the price.

If you have to move it, put it someplace where it can be finished.

In the process you will develop a different relationship with the boat which will inform your final decision.

But it strikes me you have only one choice today…..

Sell As Is Where Is
OR
move to a DIY yard.

Once moved you can decide whether to sell or complete or something else.

You are eating an elephant, take one bite at a time. Just get the order correct.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Chotu

That’s pretty much what I was thinking. About $100,000-$120,000. I don’t think that’s top dollar. That’s just a fair price.

I’d like to see what other people think also.

You see, then there is the possibility of just finishing it and selling it for significantly more. Because once it’s done, it’s worth a lot.

Such a tough call.

Hard to say.
- How far is it from completion?
- Is the buyer interested in a project boat? (this type is often looking to drive a hard bargain).
- How much money/work would you need to finish it out? Can it reasonably be used with a lesser amount of work?
- What is the realistic selling price if finished? Home built boats typically take a pretty hard hit in terms of resale value as most buyers won't even consider it presuming you didn't know what you were doing. Those that do look will want a deal because they will run into the same problem when they go to sell. The challenge is getting a buyer who can see the quality of your work and not be low balling you.

A lot of partially built boats wind up rotting away when the owner isn't willing to accept reality. You might start with your suggested numbers (or even a bit higher) but if you don't get much interest after a few months, start lowering the price...It goes back to the old saw about the value being what a willing seller and willing buyer agree to.

[Chotu]

You know what? This is where my head is right now. I know it’s an annoying thread. I know I keep flip-flopping around. But that’s kind of how these things go. I have to settle on something at some point but explore all of the options.

I definitely don’t want to be a boat builder. I hate building boats. I built a boat because I couldn’t afford one of this nature. And I wanted one. I’m more of a person that enjoys sailing boats. Not building them. I want a boat that sailed really well.

I’m thinking, why do I have to travel around the world with a boat? If anything, I will only see a lot less of it if I do that. Just facing some harsh reality there.

You are getting ready to travel to some places right now. And you are leaving the RV in the United States? Do you just pay to store it while you travel? I’m curious how you handle that. Also, when you are going to Asia and overseas, are you doing an apartment? How expensive is that? If you don’t mind me asking? Are there places to find good deals on apartments for 90 days in Europe for example?

The motorcycle stuff has really opened up a new world to me. i view it as something like a dinghy. But a dinghy that can go really far. Because an RV is not very nimble, and not very easy to get in and out of everywhere, a motorcycle can really act like a nice dinghy in that case. I can also see traveling around entire countries by motorcycle where you stay in an apartment or cheaper hotels.

The travel trailer is a little bit outside of what I’m looking for even though it’s cheap. Because I don’t always like to be in a campground. I’m getting a little bit more toward enjoying that, but often I still like to semi stealth camp. I like the option of being able to do that anyway. Trailer is make getting into small places pretty hard. Then you have to pay to store the trailer while you go out with the motorcycle and look around. The advantage of the truck camper is you can actually put it wherever you want. For instance, Montreal. When I last visited Montreal, I stuck the truck camper in a $10 per day parking lot. A $10 day parking lot that was at subway station into Montreal. I had a 15 minute ride to any part of Montreal from my “apartment” in Montreal. To me, these types of opportunities are just too great to get a travel trailer. As much as I keep looking at them. How cheap they are. It’s just amazing to me that I can have an apartment that I can set up anywhere. I’ve even set it up in the Mission district in San Francisco doing the exact same thing. I can visit New York City in a similar way. The only “campground” in nyc (actually in nj) is like $120/night. For a three dollar bus ride and free parking, I am able to be in the city indefinitely. That’s because of a truck camper. I’m not sure I want to lose all those advantages.

And it does just as well in Bureau of land management free camping in the middle of nowhere.

But yes. This is all about life. It’s not even so much about a boat. Trying to figure out goals. And I don’t think those goals are surrounding spending more years working on the boat and then all of the time it takes to get from point a to point B with a boat. There aren’t that many years left in life, and I haven’t gone anywhere. Maybe it’s time to just start going to these places. The way you do. I think you have it figured out. I may even be interested in bringing the truck camper over somewhere, but who knows? It’s probably easier to just fly and look at apartments.

Originally Posted by valhalla360

I suggest stepping back and deciding what you want to be doing. What are your goals in life?

Is your goal to be a boat builder or go out and travel?

If it's to build a boat, expect it to be long, hard and expensive. Space on or near the water is rarely cheap, particularly if you expect power and water so you can work on it (and as you are finding, the marinas have little interest in DIY people saving money). If it takes another 10yrs, you could eat up a lot of money just paying for storage only to find your health doesn't allow you to use the boat once it's ready. If you simply enjoy building, that may be a good option. If it's really just a means to an end, cut your losses and look for an alternative solution.

If the boat is a means to an end (ie: to go travel), there are better options.
- An RV is a fraction of the cost of your boat. Trying to make a single one viable for round the world travel is where you run into issues. Instead consider getting one and traveling around North America for a few years and then if you want to do Europe, sell it and pick up something in Europe (don't get hung up on diesel restrictions...RV's are big business in Europe and aren't going away any time soon...you just won't be able to drive into the city center, which you don't want to do anyway).
- Also consider apartment rentals. It avoids the whole hassle of transporting your home around the world.
- See if you can find an existing smaller but simpler boat where you can get access to all the surfaces to clean the mold.

If you are dead set on a universal RV consider something like the following:
- Fusos are available around the world, so it should be possible to get them worked on just about anywhere.
- Costs for used ones are pretty reasonable. Try to get a flatbed tow truck version as it comes with a 3 point mount so racking doesn't tear the trailer box apart. A 20-24ft travel trailer is generally pretty cheap (new from under $20k) You need to pull the axles and make some modifications to the plumbing but pretty straight forward and quick.
- High ground clearance is the main thing you need, so even a 4x2 can get to some pretty out of the way places (rarely do people take overlander trucks truly off roading).
- A 20-24ft travel trailer is much more spacious than a truck camper and US pickups are rare outside N. America so parts and work become more problematic.
- It wouldn't be hard to put a rack on for a motorcycle (and the truck should be able to handle the extra weight)

4x4 RV / Adventure Vehicle: 4x4 RV / Adventure Vehicle

We are between boats at the moment. Sitting in the RV and plans are to head to Europe in October for 3 months before heading to Asia to finish out the winter. In the spring, we are planning to drive to Alaska with the RV.