Looking For Ideas - May Give Up

[PirateFoxy]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

For dishes, and glasses, we don't like plastic, although we have a few plastic bowls and glasses. Mostly, we use glass glasses, stoneware plates, bowls, cups, saucers, or Corelle. We just learned how to store them. Not rocket science. Easy to wash. I am the dishwasher, salad maker, and baker, as Jim does most of the cooking.

I guess I'll say that the labor is a small cost to pay for freedom, that omitting luxuries will lead to freedom sooner....and that everyone gets to make their own choices. Only note, we have had our freedom already now for over 30 yrs. I wrote that from looking back a loooong way.

A lot of camping stuff these days is plastic which is where we started stocking our RV from things we already had. But we’ve already switched to china plates (technically pasta bowls, they don’t spill as easily which is important in tight quarters with a 125lb dog trying to trip you so you accidentally ‘share’ your dinner ) and metal silverware and I upgraded to some small enameled mixing bowls for various kitchen mixing tasks. (Enameled because then they won’t react if I want to use them to marinade or something with acidity.)

The primary plastic culprits currently are drinking glasses (I’m worried about breaking if they were glass because our kiddo is still bad about leaving things in unstable places and a broken glass in the RV would be a pita to clean up) and food storage containers (like for leftovers or prepping in advance.) Oh, and a cutting board, but that doesn’t seem to be as difficult to clean - different sort of plastic maybe? The food storage plastic is going to be phased out for other solutions once we have a better idea of what sizes we use regularly and what we need. (Well, I say phased out - we’ll probably keep a couple because they’re much more hiking-friendly than a lot of other options. But we don’t usually take greasy food hiking so they don’t get as gross to begin with and so washing isn’t a big deal. But we’ll stop using them for leftovers and food prep tasks.)

I’ve had a little bit of luck getting them cleaner by doing a final soak in hot water with vinegar in it, which seems to cut the grease, but it does rather smell up the RV if you do it inside.

[Buzzman]

I find myself constantly fascinated by the apparent 'fixation' so many people - especially sailors and RV owners who are especially limited by space constraints - have for the apparently ubiquitous dishwasher.
I have never owned one myself (by rational and reasoned choice) and only once growing up lived in a house that contained one.
Frankly, I put the fascination and obsession down to the modern art of laziness - or if that offends - the capture by the 'convenience myth' that so dominates modern advertising and 'culture'.
One myth I find particularly grating is the one that states 'dishwashers use less water than filling a sink'.
Well, maybe, if you have a particularly large sink and a particularly frugal dishwasher.
But the question I ask anyone who 'enthuses' over a dishwasher is this:
"After you've cooked a meal, do you NEVER have anything that 'won't fit in the dishwasher', OR 'can't be put in the dishwasher (e.g. plastics or pans with long handles)....??
Invariably - and I say this without fear of equivocation - they ALWAYS respond in the affirmative.
In other words - there is ALWAYS something that won't fit in the dishwasher - and so the sink needs to be filled anyway...!!
Ergo, ANY water used by the dishwasher is in excess of what might have been used had one only used the sink in the first place.
There is also the power consumption, which even in a grid-connected situation is not inconsiderable. Never mind in a 'current constrained' environment like a boat or an RV.
I have had people with large families (and therefore lots of dishes) declare it a boon - and I can understand that specific argument. But surely this is only a 'boon' until the offspring are old enough to be trusted with a washing up brush or a tea towel..??
Otherwise, are the parents simply avoiding the 'aww, Mommmm' whining of the offspring..??
When I grew up, apart from one house where a dishwasher was fitted, we ALWAYS did the washing up by hand. No discussion, no whining. Toss a coin if you must. And so we just got on with it. Although, admittedly, not alwyas wholeheartedly nor without muttered complaint.
Personally, I loathed both stacking and emptying the dishwasher when we did have one, because everything was horribly greasy and filthy, or greasy and wet, or just plain wet - and the smell of the harsh dishwashing chemicals I found particularly unpleasant. I much prefer the soft, gentle appple or lemon-scented surfactants used in the sink.
Not looking to start an argument - this is my personal view - but I do find it astonishing that so many apparently otherwise rational people can be so misguided over such an utterly wasteful piece of 'convenience tech'.
Yet another of those 'human conundrums'.
Why I bothered to post this is as a direct response to Chotu's insistence that he requires one in his, admittedly already tiny, RV. Which he will mostly be using on his own. So one bowl, one cup, one glass, one set of cutlery.....
I mean, seriously, how hard is it to clean that up? How much of your day does it actually take up?
For example, I just cleaned up last night's pots and pans and the breakfast things in about 2 mins. Half a sink of water, maybe 5L. And one of the pans was a frypan with a long handle that would have been difficult to fit in anyything but the largest dishwasher....
I am genuinely bemused....

[malbert73]

Chotu- here’s a strong vote for storing the boat somewhere for later on. Cover it up, and come back to it later. You’ll be selling for pennies on the dollar anyway. I think selling it is a skewed idea due to your immediate situation, and I bet in 2 years or less you will regret it- especially since you can’t find a replacement “off the shelf”

RVing is great, but there is nothing like landfalls underway, crystal clear water under the hulls, perfect offshore passages, truly being off grid without having to hide like an RV in some places, etc.

[PirateFoxy]

Originally Posted by Buzzman

In other words - there is ALWAYS something that won't fit in the dishwasher - and so the sink needs to be filled anyway...!!

Why would you fill up the sink for one pan? Scrub with a soapy sponge, rinse, done? No soaking.

[JPA Cate]

Living on the boat for so long, I never fill the sink with water. I fill a small bowl with sudsy water and wash from that. Less time to heat it, and usually rinse with cold, unless it's too cold for my hands. Course, you gotta get it clean with the hot water. Also, usually wash once a day. We had water rationing when my kids were growing up, and we all made an effort to conserve water. Use for backpacking as well as boating and RVing.

Ann

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by malbert73

Chotu- here’s a strong vote for storing the boat somewhere for later on. Cover it up, and come back to it later. You’ll be selling for pennies on the dollar anyway. I think selling it is a skewed idea due to your immediate situation, and I bet in 2 years or less you will regret it- especially since you can’t find a replacement “off the shelf”

RVing is great, but there is nothing like landfalls underway, crystal clear water under the hulls, perfect offshore passages, truly being off grid without having to hide like an RV in some places, etc.

This isn’t a bad idea at all.

Does anyone know the absolute cheapest place to store a cat with a 25’ beam on the east coast of the USA from say Tampa to Portland, Maine or so?

There are no zincs or metal below the waterline to worry about. No seacocks. So it doesn’t matter if it’s in water or dry storage. The boat could outlive us all even with in water storage. Either that or on the hard is good.

Fresh water, up rivers is great. Away from hurricanes.

Or should I start a new thread to discuss this idea?

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by PirateFoxy

Why would you fill up the sink for one pan? Scrub with a soapy sponge, rinse, done? No soaking.

That’s what I was thinking.

Buzz: the dishwasher is for giving me more time in life. Priceless. It washes the dishes from complex, gourmet type things I cook from scratch. It gives me the energy to cook another one at the next meal.

Dishwashers have changed a lot since you were a kid. They work now. Nothing comes out greasy and dirty. It’s all so clean it squeaks in your hands when you put it away.

Also, 1500 watts solar, water maker, generator. Power and water consumption aren’t an issue.

All pots and pans fit in a full size 24” dishwasher like I have on the boat. Probably not on a smaller dishwasher.

They are, however, an issue in an RV. Big time. So maybe not in an RV other than the little ones you get to go on a counter. I don’t know if those work well.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

Living on the boat for so long, I never fill the sink with water. I fill a small bowl with sudsy water and wash from that. Less time to heat it, and usually rinse with cold, unless it's too cold for my hands. Course, you gotta get it clean with the hot water. Also, usually wash once a day. We had water rationing when my kids were growing up, and we all made an effort to conserve water. Use for backpacking as well as boating and RVing.

Ann

Same here. I have made it a game to see how little water I can use for dishes for decades.

I typically put some in a dirty pot and hear it on the stovetop. Then I pour that into the sink and wash from that.

I put the soapy dishes in the neighboring sink and splash them all at once at the end using like 16oz of water. They sit in that sink to dry.

[Buzzman]

I'm with Ann on this one. Small bowl, minimal water, quickly scrub, wipe and put away.

Takes no time at all.

I, too, grew up in a water-restricted environment, on a farm, where every drop had to work twice.


So all greywater went to the vegetable garden, but only after bathwater had been through the washing machine as well. Got three uses out of it that way.


It becomes a way of life in the end. Or a way of 'living'....

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Buzzman

I'm with Ann on this one. Small bowl, minimal water, quickly scrub, wipe and put away.

Takes no time at all.

I, too, grew up in a water-restricted environment, on a farm, where every drop had to work twice.


So all greywater went to the vegetable garden, but only after bathwater had been through the washing machine as well. Got three uses out of it that way.


It becomes a way of life in the end. Or a way of 'living'....

What are you cooking? It’s just microwaving or heating up some canned food?

I have a mountain of dishes since I make everything from scratch. Different world.

I challenge you to do my dishes for a week. You’d be b in tears by Thursday. LOL

[Buzzman]

Define 'cooking everything from scratch..?'

I create pasta sauce 'from scratch'. I create stir fry 'from scratch'.

But I'm not creating a 'Babette's Feast-type banquet' every night of the week...!!!

I rinse as I go, using a sponge and small container of water. Any cooking water gets drained into this (keeps it hot).

A 'major effort' in the kitchen by me uses maybe three pans, 2 chopping boards and perhaps a couple of small bowls to hold chopped stuff till required.

In the case of the stir fry, there is a rice cooker bowl as well, which NEVER comes clean with a wipe, so is invariably soaked over night so it does clean quickly the next day, usually just with a quick brush.

Usually, I have washed the pots and pans before I even sit down to eat, as it's easier to do this while they are hot. I simply add a bit of boiled water, detergent, swirl with the brush and bingo. Done.

Casseroles and long-cook-time stuff like stews invariably get crusty and require soaking, but still, it's a one pot meal (or two if I cook rice, pasta or spuds to go with it).

Simples....

But yeah, that's once every four days or so, then in between I simply microwave, or reheat the previously cooked meals. Beats a mountain of wash up every single night.

Maybe I might rethink the dishwasher in that case.... lol

[PirateFoxy]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

Living on the boat for so long, I never fill the sink with water. I fill a small bowl with sudsy water and wash from that. Less time to heat it, and usually rinse with cold, unless it's too cold for my hands. Course, you gotta get it clean with the hot water. Also, usually wash once a day. We had water rationing when my kids were growing up, and we all made an effort to conserve water. Use for backpacking as well as boating and RVing.

I learned about these bottles from another RVer and they’re great for rinsing with less water - you get a nice directed stream with far more control than a tap set as low as possible. (Let’s hope the link works.)

https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B00WTHLR...ing=UTF8&psc=1

Originally Posted by Chotu

Buzz: the dishwasher is for giving me more time in life. Priceless. It washes the dishes from complex, gourmet type things I cook from scratch. It gives me the energy to cook another one at the next meal.

Dishwashers have changed a lot since you were a kid. They work now. Nothing comes out greasy and dirty. It’s all so clean it squeaks in your hands when you put it away.

Also, 1500 watts solar, water maker, generator. Power and water consumption aren’t an issue.

All pots and pans fit in a full size 24” dishwasher like I have on the boat. Probably not on a smaller dishwasher.

They are, however, an issue in an RV. Big time. So maybe not in an RV other than the little ones you get to go on a counter. I don’t know if those work well.

Single drawer ones are usually what you get in an RV. Our plan is to basically use it for washing and storage for everyday dishes/cups/cutlery with a bit of extra space for other stuff. Pots and so on would still need to be hand washed but they’re tricky to fit in the drawer size anyway. (We’d need to have an extra stash of dishes for guests, but that’s rare enough that things could be hand washed then anyway.) So basically dishes come out, when they’re all out everything goes back in, whole thing gets run once a day when the generator is on anyway probably? Something like that, we aren’t doing the dishwasher this year so it’s not fully planned out.

Originally Posted by Chotu

What are you cooking? It’s just microwaving or heating up some canned food?

I have a mountain of dishes since I make everything from scratch. Different world.

Combine tasks over a couple meals to save washing stuff so much. Like if I chop an onion I do the whole thing for whatever I need for the next 2-3 days so then I don’t have to get the cutting board out again hopefully. (Obviously not just onion, you do it with everything you’re chopping.) I also try to prep stuff like raw meat when we’re at a place with hookups so I can wash without worrying about water use or filling the grey tank. (I mean, our tanks aren’t small, but it’s just a habit so we can go longer between dump stations/fill ups.) Or even better at home where everything but the good knife goes in the dishwasher.

But I cook a lot from scratch and I find some planning like that does help keep the number of dishes each meal manageable. I also think about order during meal prep - I usually start with fruit, then salad ingredients like lettuce, tomatoes, etc. wipe with a damp cloth between items as needed to clear away juices. Once those things are done THEN the pungent stuff like onion/garlic since it doesn’t wipe away as well and I can taste it on stuff chopped after it. (Garlicky strawberries are not good.) Finally raw meat as the last thing before washing. I use the enameled bowls I mentioned to hold stuff that’s been chopped until I’m ready to cook - they wash up really quickly.



Re: our RV fridge dilemma, for anyone curious. My SO’s been on his own for a few days for the first time since the fridge started really acting up. Last night he couldn’t take the cooler ice dance anymore and texts me a photo of an apartment sized domestic fridge sitting in the middle of the RV. So his job for the next week is to get the RV one out and the new one in because I refuse to go camping when I have to climb AROUND a fridge to get anywhere. (It’ll fit in the space where the RV one is now.) I just think it’s funny he couldn’t make it even a week on his own without getting fed up.

[hpeer]

Originally Posted by Chotu

This isn’t a bad idea at all.

Does anyone know the absolute cheapest place to store a cat with a 25’ beam on the east coast of the USA from say Tampa to Portland, Maine or so?

There are no zincs or metal below the waterline to worry about. No seacocks. So it doesn’t matter if it’s in water or dry storage. The boat could outlive us all even with in water storage. Either that or on the hard is good.

Fresh water, up rivers is great. Away from hurricanes.

Or should I start a new thread to discuss this idea?

I already answered this very far back up thread.

Edenton Marina, Edenton, NC

Very head of the Albemarle Sound.

Fresh water.

Totally landlocked basin.

I am told it is out of the hurricane box for some insurance companies. Thr box stops at the bridge several miles East.

Inexpensive.

Prettiest town in America.

Someone else is building a similar size cat there now.

[Sand crab]

I brought up that I was converting a regular bike to ebike awhile back in this thread. That job is done. Top speed under power alone is 36mph or 57.9 kmph. I can do a little over 39 if I tuck. Sorry about the thread drift. PM me if you want details.

[Chotu]

Sorry!

It’s a long thread and I lost track of that. Thank you for the reference to Edenton Marina. I’ll add it to the list.

It’s been decided. FINALLY.

The decision is to kick the can down the road a bit.

I’ll just focus on work and getting my girlfriend set up so she can get help this fall while I’m staying in the RV.

I toyed with the idea of getting a new truck for my current RV but the truck buying climate, just like the boat buying climate, is awful. They are out of new trucks and charging over MSRP everywhere. Used prices are sky high. So that’s out. The Isuzu NPR/travel trailer idea is still a good one. I like it a lot. Big living space and not much work. But I’ll delay that too. Everyone is buying boats and RVs like crazy still.

Come winter when it’s too cold to be anywhere up north (when it snows), I’ll head down and work on the boat a few months. Only after a few months of working on the boat by myself will I make my final decision.

I wanted to take a trip or 2 to Thailand or some fairly exotic place by plane to see if lots of international travel was for me or not. There is a lot of pollution there, it’s hot, hard to not eat food allergens, etc. I figured that would be a great test of my ability (health wise) to live in various places. But Covid seems to have that all locked down still as an option.

So I guess I’m staying the course until spring or so. That gives me a chance to get my girlfriend set up, continue seeing if the RV is good for me, do a little more boat work and basically test out everything with new perspectives, to decide for myself which path to take.

Thank you to all for participating in this thread. I couldn’t have come up with a plan without all the input. It’s very much appreciated and I’ll continue to look back at this thread over the next year to keep things in perspective.

So the plan is: kick the can down the road a bit. I think this was Ann’s advice way back. It certainly was some advice from others as well. Im not ready to close the door on this very special boat.

I just have to keep storage rates exceedingly low so I don’t burn through much money delaying things. I have a different thread started for that.

Originally Posted by hpeer

I already answered this very far back up thread.

Edenton Marina, Edenton, NC

Very head of the Albemarle Sound.

Fresh water.

Totally landlocked basin.

I am told it is out of the hurricane box for some insurance companies. Thr box stops at the bridge several miles East.

Inexpensive.

Prettiest town in America.

Someone else is building a similar size cat there now.