How not to get towed.

[coldfish]

Last month I took my boat out for a "test drive" after getting a new motor. We sailed out to Angel Island in SF Bay, had lunch at the cafe, and then proceeded to go back to our slip at pier 39.

Backed out of the slip and the motor quit. So, slowly drifting towards a rocky shore, about 20' away, my buddy managed to get the jib up and catch the slighest breeze and we navigated our way out of the little inlet.

So, catastrophe avoided, we sailed for a while, but i wasn't going to try to free-sail into pier 39 marina, so I went and called the tow boat. It's a project boat, so I've got the super duper you pay nothing insurance.

Tow boat arrives, we get towed almost to the marina, then comes alongside and says we're going to tie up beam to beam and he's going bring us in that way. Now, there's a little inlet just before the marina and, being project boat guy, I had been here before and asked why not there. Their cap says, "oh, it's calm enough out and there's more maneuver space here".

Ok, you're the pro, right? So I go to the bow, run the line through the fairlead and tie off to the Samson post. I look back and his deckhand has thrown one of my passengers a line and told him to drop it on the port winch. Before I can say "Hey, that's not something you tie to", he's got it bound tight to the towboat's heavy towbar. A small wave comes, the 2 boats rock and with the magic of leverage, the probably double the weight of boat boats was put on that line and the weakest link broke.

Off came my winch, torn right out of the deck and combing, flew through the air and dropped into the bay.

"Oh, sorry dude. That usually works fine"

Needless to say, Towboat guy is like, "uh, call my boss and he'll work something out for you", refusing to take any blame.

Finally, $500 is offered..... to a local woodworker who has yet to do anything.

And, since I sail my boat all the time in the bay, I can't exactly make an enemy of the towboat company!

Man. So, when you get towed, don't assume they know what they're doing.

So, if anyone knows where I can get a winch and winch stand for a 1968 Cheoy Lee Alden Pilothouse 31, That would be good to know.

https://photo.morrisdev.com/mo/sharing/jhCMG6uVB

note: And I completely take responsibility, as I'm the cap on that boat and what happens to it is my responsibility. This is really just a warning to others not to just assume that the "professionals" are experienced.

[S/V Illusion]

Self-inflicted problem.

Sounds more like a project boat on which the winches were not properly mounted. Be very grateful anyone reimbursed you. That was a gift.

[Jammer]

That's tough. Could happen to anyone.


Some marine service personnel are not in the habit of allowing the skipper of a boat they serve to be in charge. I run into it at fuel docks mainly, having never had a commercial tow (no doubt my day will come).

[ThereAndBack]

While this is a thread about towing...



I have found through my interactions with marine service providers, that the industry is absolutely full of people that either don't know what they're doing or will take short cuts. And I'm not talking about the shade tree mechanic types, I'm talking reputable boat yards too.



The lesson here is that you're responsible for your vessel, you should oversee all work or services being done to it, and you should assume that anyone working on your vessel doesn't know what they're doing until they've proven themselves otherwise. This took me a while to learn.

[coldfish]

That is exactly how I look at it. I mean, I'm irritated, but clearly it's my own damn fault.

Originally Posted by ThereAndBack

While this is a thread about towing...



I have found through my interactions with marine service providers, that the industry is absolutely full of people that either don't know what they're doing or will take short cuts. And I'm not talking about the shade tree mechanic types, I'm talking reputable boat yards too.



The lesson here is that you're responsible for your vessel, you should oversee all work or services being done to it, and you should assume that anyone working on your vessel doesn't know what they're doing until they've proven themselves otherwise. This took me a while to learn.

[ThereAndBack]

Originally Posted by coldfish

That is exactly how I look at it. I mean, I'm irritated, but clearly it's my own damn fault.

I wouldn't say that. We come to expect a certain level of competence when we hire someone that is professionally qualified to do a job. But the reality is that reality isn't perfect so we become more cautious overtime. Forgive yourself and be vigilant.

[coldfish]

Oh, they were mounted ok. I mean, they've been there since 1968. By "Project", I really mean just the conversion from diesel to electric, not me messing with the structure.

But wood is wood, and when you put the entire weight of a boat perpendicular to the 1" wood combing, the combing loses.

Originally Posted by S/V Illusion

Self-inflicted problem.

Sounds more like a project boat on which the winches were not properly mounted. Be very grateful anyone reimbursed you. That was a gift.

[Bill O]

Must have been some decent force to snap the bronze winch mount and the 1" wood at the same time.

[coldfish]

It didn't snap the mount, it just pulled it out of the deck.

Like a big lever. Once it popped the wood, it was practically like a having a crow bar on it, where instead of your arm, it had the weight of 2 multi-ton vessels. And it was a pretty good sized wave and windy. Honestly, it probably would have torn a cleat out as well. You need to leave some flex space and he had it tight. I should have been the one to tie it up and not that guy.

Originally Posted by Bill O

Must have been some decent force to snap the bronze winch mount and the 1" wood at the same time.

[donradcliffe]

Normally, the jib sheet winches are designed for the highest loads on a boat and are the strongest thing to tie to for towing.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by ThereAndBack

The lesson here is that you're responsible for your vessel, you should oversee all work or services being done to it, and you should assume that anyone working on your vessel doesn't know what they're doing until they've proven themselves otherwise. This took me a while to learn.

I find that it's difficult. The challenge is to be sufficiently assertive to prevent exactly the sort of accident described in the OP, without being a jerk and jeopardizing the relationship with the service provider and, possibly, crew and onlookers. And this balance must be struck, all too often, with someone you've known for all of 90 seconds.


Thinking out loud here, I wonder whether part of the problem with towing insurance is that it encourages towing operators to work quickly and wrap up jobs rather than take extra time for which they may not get paid. Perhaps the skipper paying $300 an hour to the towboat is taken more seriously when he says to slow down and be careful.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

Normally, the jib sheet winches are designed for the highest loads on a boat and are the strongest thing to tie to for towing.

It's an unusual boat with unusual winches. It's a motor sailor and a ketch so the jib and hence the sheet load is small compared to the displacement. And that bracket is attached in a way that is much stronger fore and aft -- the direction from which sheet loads are greatest -- than when pulled abeam.

[marcjsmith]

static load on one thing, but a dynamic shock load... that sucks...


bacons in annapolis has a fair amount of old stuff, and anchors and oars in stevensville Md as well. take a few pics start sending emails. winch is the easy thing. the support not so much. on the plus side you have one installed so you could use it it for a pattern to make up a new one...

[Franziska]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

Normally, the jib sheet winches are designed for the highest loads on a boat and are the strongest thing to tie to for towing.

Actually I would think the mast might be stronger, at least if it's not deck mounted.

[MartinF]

I had a cleat pulled out and a shroud torn off the spreader during a side-by-side tow in very moderate conditions. Side-by-side towing is for flat water only.