How Much Abuse do you Tolerate on Your Boat

[GordMay]

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Hobbit, & akshiena.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by svgypsyqueen

Perhaps preface your trip with a rundown on the rules aboard ship. Everything is in a certain way for a reason. This is my home and it is important that we not break my home so when on the helm... Please take caution to follow instructions or perhaps let me know if you are uncomfortable with taking the position.

Perhaps explain the dangers of an unplanned gybe.

Help them to understand from the beginning that life aboard is different. And potentially in some cases of neglect... Dangerous.

Good luck with a better screening process in the future!

Originally Posted by akprb

ZBOSS, I agree. It's my responsibility to set the tone, lead, be gracious but clear of the expectations before and during. The "feel" of the cruise is set by me and generally people are good about it. If not then a gentle talk in order. I would say look in the mirror first. Yes there are idiots out there but I'd running into that many sounds like a management issue ��

These kinds of responses remind me of the famous Mike Tyson quote:

"Everyone has a plan, 'till they get punched in the mouth."

[spiv]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

This is where the Wife and I differ, if I have people who act that way, I'm throwing them off the boat, nearest spot possible.
I am way too old for that stuff, I don't expect them to grovel, but I was brought up to say yes Mam and yes Sir and thank you, please and I expect the same, I don't get it, your gone.
Wife on the other hand would worry about Family, what would they they think for kicking Cousin George off on an island.
I don't care.

I have not read all comments as this thread has gotten too long for my timespan..... but I liked this.

I have taken crew for ocean passages and had friends on board even for a month.

If I don't know them, I ask lots of questions, want to see their Facebook page or Linkedin or similar, nobody comes on board if I don't like them.! (That is Full Stop!!)
Sailing experience is of little concern as I can single hand the boat, but the want to learn and participate is important.

They always pay their way to me and contribute to costs, there is no free cruising on my boat, it costs me a fortune to buy and keep in ship-shape.
I ask for input, but I make all final decisions.
I decide if going to one port or another depending on weather, even if there is a plane to catch.
I make all this very clear before accepting the crew.

Then, once they are on board, I mellow and am a lot nicer to people, but once the rules are set and agreed to, it is easy to go back to them.

[Sea Dreaming]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

These kinds of responses remind me of the famous Mike Tyson quote:

"Everyone has a plan, 'till they get punched in the mouth."

Eh....you can capture more bees with honey

Honestly, its all a matter of style. I'm 5 feet tall, 110 lbs and nearing 50. You can't take advantage of me, I've been around a bit. But with my stature it's best to approach the problem as a "tough mother" (good old mom) figure and appeal to a person inate fear of mom!

I'm only partially kidding. The point is, the tough guy stuff works for tough guys. If you aren't really a tough guy you lose respect. So everyone needs to do what will garner the most respect for them. Maybe it's being "mom" and maybe tough guy. Do what works best for you. And don't take on anyone who isn't under your spell.

[Mirage35]

This and a couple of related threads certainly have legs, and loads of interesting thoughts, so ... based on three short cruises this summer, on three different boats, with three different groups ...

(In all cases it was probably more crowded than ideal, but for a one-week trip you tell yourself it's not a big deal. In two of the cases we didn't know the other crew members, aside from a casual pre-trip meeting, before getting on the boat.)

What's important for me to remember is that under stress - and just being in a confined space with a group of people is a stress - we all revert to our basic personalities. And this is something you likely won't see in a pre-trip discussion, because that's a social occasion without the same stress.

In my case I will tend to become uncommunicative; do what needs to be done, participate in all activities, but not seek out interaction. I come across as being grumpy, but I'm not (honest ). I'm just introverted. Others react in their own personal ways.

Again in my experience, awareness is halfway to a solution. I recognize the tendency in myself and try to deal with it to the extent possible, and try to cut others some slack knowing that they're going through something similar.

In all three cases we had good trips, although there was some adjustment required. Some people I wouldn't choose to sail with again because differences in personal preferences became obvious; others I would go with again but perhaps with a more detailed discussion of plans and interests beforehand.

Clear, honest, non-accusative communication can work wonders. I wish I'd figured that out a few decades ago.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Sea Dreaming

Eh....you can capture more bees with honey

Honestly, its all a matter of style. I'm 5 feet tall, 110 lbs and nearing 50. You can't take advantage of me, I've been around a bit. But with my stature it's best to approach the problem as a "tough mother" (good old mom) figure and appeal to a person inate fear of mom!

I'm only partially kidding. The point is, the tough guy stuff works for tough guys. If you aren't really a tough guy you lose respect. So everyone needs to do what will garner the most respect for them. Maybe it's being "mom" and maybe tough guy. Do what works best for you. And don't take on anyone who isn't under your spell.

No, you understood my point incorrectly. These other folks like to talk up their excellent plans which do work with most people. But take on board some jackass, drunk or mentally unstable person.... it's like being "punched in the mouth," basically their plan is useless in this situation, and it creates a situation very difficult for a decent person to extract themself from.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by K_V_B

I think this is probably the clue to your different experiences. Requiring people to commit financially to an undertaking functions as a filter. It weeds out those who think they are entitled, and leaves you with those for whom it is self evident that in order to get something you also need to give something.

Yes, I think there is something to this.

Although sharing food, fuel and berthing is really only symbolic (the real expense is preparing and repairing the boat), it does make the crew "shareholders" in the voyage. It makes them "shareholders" in the voyage and focuses their minds on what they want to get out of the voyage and makes it easier to have a meeting of the minds, on mutual expectations.

I think it also helps the attitude of the captain. The OP seems to think that he "bought" his crew for food, and that they owe and owe him, and that they should be "grateful". This is an unhealthy attitude. No human relationship will work if there is not a healthy exchange of value. The crew should know what they will get out of it -- are they going to have fun, will they get to visit some interesting ports, will they learn something. Will there be good meals together, good conversation. And the captain needs to think about these things and make sure the crew is having a worthwhile experience. And in exchange, the crew should be pitching in and doing everything possible to help, and should also be thinking about whether the captain is comfortable and having fun. This is all kind of basic, but seems to be difficult for some to create on board their boats.

[Sea Dreaming]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

No, you understood my point incorrectly. These other folks like to talk up their excellent plans which do work with most people. But take on board some jackass, drunk or mentally unstable person.... it's like being "punched in the mouth," basically their plan is useless in this situation, and it creates a situation very difficult for a decent person to extract themself from.

Ah....I see the light

[zeehag]

i learned skill is adversely proportionate to words spewed.
speak a lot of what your qualifications are, you know nada.
nada serious nada.
the louder the bray the less they know. ok. so all spew and no do-- swim.
and donot forget the schizophrenics without meds..
i donot generally take on young folks, and my experience has been with those pretty much in my generation, mebbe one generation younger. no manners no couth.
is not the younger generations.
cannot blame them.
it all comes from us.
hahahah deal with it. as we teach, so are they taught. if they learn, awesome. if not-- donot blame them--could be the teaching techniques used. remember--our generation was their parents ha ha ha ha ha ah
so--how were your instructional techniques

and each potential situation is different from all others.

[TheThunderbird]

Originally Posted by GoingWalkabout

When voting is needed. These people are guests on a boat. They are not paying for food or anything. But that is almost beside the point. A boat has a Captain. These people have no vote. They have the duty to follow reasonable instructions. The duty to be respectful of the Captain -home owner, Duty to contribute in the galley and on deck. And the absolute duty to be thankful that a kind person has given them so much and such an opportunity.

If this was a shared boat where everybody owned shares in the boat and everyone contributed equally as boat owners then a vote would be appropriate. But even then. A person who is the nominated Captain is the person in charge. Deciding when to leave a port is the Captains decision because of weather conditions. Etc. Etc.

If these people lied about experience and ate your food, slept on your boat (home) and we're not able to contribute as this was the purpose of you having them on board. You have every right to put them ashore at the next port. And to heck with how they get home. They lied.

Liers and rude pieces of work have no place aboard a vessel.

I would be very concerned about having on board a real nut case that could stab you while asleep. Or push you overboard because he didn't like being told to be more careful how he used the head.

With the general deterioration of society in so many ways you need to be very careful. Any sign of mental instability. They are off.

Would you go around picking strangers up off the street and have them come and live in your home? It's like playing Russian Roulette if you don't know very well who they are.

I like what the other sailor suggested. Take potential crew out for a full day or overnight cruise first. Watch them, test them and any sign of rudeness, lack of teachability, skills or mental emotional issues then return them to port and wave them goodbye.

If you can sail solo then enjoy your freedom. If you get lonely, buy a cat or dog. If it's a mate in the long term relationship you are looking for then relax, walk you cat or dog to cafes and let destiny work it's magic.

Good luck and happy sailing.

Chaya

Dear All, thanks a lot for all your balanced comments. I chose GOING WALKABOUT's comment as the most representative of my approach, yet I recognize that Pelagic is right, in that I made some pre-emptive assumption without checking them in the reality.

I mean sense of duty, discipline, fairness, attitude at personal order/cleanliness, etc...

Ann, sure agreeing on a written Consensus Document of duties/expectations of all is fine, although, most esteemed DH, I don't feel entitled to feel responsibility of other people's whims and expectations (happiness included!), given the do ut does balance (my boat costs 2000eur/month just to get floating)....

I never expected people gybing in F7, cooking for me, or explaining to me Riemann's conjectures... I (merely) expected people to be happy in summertime on a nice boat in a warm climate, but apparently anyone loves an Ego-massage first.:-)

For this, i really would like to be paid, as it was when in the va po' Scott of Principal of Knowledge in ArthurDLittle Inc. as a strategic consultant for stock listed hi-reach corporations

I still keep trust in finishing out good people around ...:-)

THANK YOU (l good this post may generate a better awareness in all CREW people reading out your notes)

[GoingWalkabout]

Originally Posted by naitaka322

guests are like fish, after a few days they begin to smell

Not if you have a water maker onboard.

[adoxograph]

Originally Posted by GoingWalkabout

Not if you have a water maker onboard.

[Scotty Kiwi]

Originally Posted by K_V_B

I have to wholeheartedly disagree. ( And I'm over 40 myself).

Complaining about the lack of manners in the younger generation is of all times. Every generation complains about the one following it being less civilized. This is universal, and an example of the cognitive biases our imperfect brains suffer from.

But think of it. Already in Roman times older people complained about the behavior of the young. Do you however really think that it would be possible for every generation to be worse behaved than the previous? In fact, it is rather the opposite. We are currently a society that is massively more peaceful and civilized than for example the 19th century was. And this in spite of people in the 19th century complaining at every opportunity that the manners of the young were ever getting worse...

Yeah, fair enough in terms of manners. I was thinking more in terms of the younger generation feeling entitled to, (at the risk of using the wrong words) "make the rules", not comply, not fit, have a say without first having the knowledge. That internet generation. But I guess, as you point out, that side of humanity's also been going on for all time.

[adoxograph]

Originally Posted by Scotty Kiwi

... as you point out, that side of humanity's also been going on for all time.

"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers."

Socrates

[Izenears]

I guess it has all been said but here is my fourpenny'th. People getting something for nothing place no value on the something. A contribution of some nature even if it is a defined responsibility, say Breakfast chef, gives that person a formal role to fill.

Next never let anyone on your boat you haven't sat down and had a meal with; they want your boat, you want a meal. You can see how they behave, talk and eat. I know it is old fashioned but good table manners says a great deal about people. They pay for either the meal or their food. You select the place to eat. You can also see how much they drink!

Hold a bond always, they must have a way of leaving the Port you drop them in otherwise you are responsible. The Bond must equal a flight to a place under their Passport's flag. Otherwise you cannot kick them off in a great many places.

Have a check list and tick off the issues. Skills, laugh, manners, knowledge, what can they cook, how would they respond in a given difficulty (go forward on a big sea to drop a sail in safety harness)....write one up and then give a score for each.

Get them to ask questions of you, if it is all about them rather than living on a boat with all its associated issues, you know you have a potential problem.

This is possibly the hardest....get older single people, not kids doing life on the cheap which means at someone else's expense. Older people need not be scary, you just need common sense. Single women might be different but maybe look for an older woman.

If you are not 100% sure, don't let them come aboard. You are not only the skipper, you are human and deserve respect as we all do.

Better luck next time
PS We did meet older people who had younger crew that work out really well. They did their work and more, they were charming without being intrusive and I think the couple might have wanted to adopt one by the time they would have got to Bora Bora!! So it can work.