Hitting an anchored boat in a sparsely populated anchorage while under sail

[smj]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

It comes back to what I mentioned earlier. Before you're close enough to see, call one of the boats showing on AIS and ask how full the anchorage is. Plenty of us keep our VHFs on at anchor (until bedtime in our case).

That would work well with my proposed class C AIS!
But seriously, can’t one just call on the vhf to get that info? That’s the way we used to do it.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by smj

That would work well with my proposed class C AIS!
But seriously, can’t one just call on the vhf to get that info? That’s the way we used to do it.

You'd use the VHF to make the call. The AIS would give you the option of calling a boat by name instead of making a generic call and hoping someone in the anchorage picks up on it and decides to respond. Not strictly necessary, but it's a potentially useful benefit if you've already got the equipment.

For the class C idea, I'm not sure it's necessary. AIS already reduces transmission frequency when you're stopped (to save airtime congestion) and most chartplotters have an option to hide non-moving targets. So if you find that non moving boats aren't useful information for you, there's already a way to make them disappear.

[Drunkonwatch]

Sounds like the next feature for the open source nav nerds….my budget I’ll hold my best kerosene latern up and I trained the fog to bark on command in the dog.

[BlueH2Obound]

Originally Posted by Chotu

you guys are having a different discussion though.

Until you link your Internet life with your AIS, it’s no problem keeping it on. AIS is a very useful tool.

however, once you have linked your Internet life to your specific AIS number, now something is a little bit different.

at this point, any crackpot or psycho online can easily find you, harass you, burn your boat down, or whatever else they have threatened to do. Trust me I have received a lot of these types of threats. The boat threats were the worst because I couldn't move the boat at the time. The death threats? Well, good luck to them.

The idea is to keep your online persona separate from your real life persona so that you don’t run into real life problems from online stupidity.

there are a lot of things in the world that can come back to bite you in the ass. You’re just making it easier by giving everyone your exact location and your identity on the Internet.

that’s just downright foolish and short sighted.

for instance: I might know exactly what equipment there and back has on his boat because he posts about it online. He has a brand new MFD or some thing. Some really expensive electric folding bicycle. he’s been asking online for a place to leave the boat for a while while he goes off to visit a sick relative. Or to his daughters wedding or some thing. People suggested a specific mooring field. He liked it. He took it.

I can verify that he got there by looking at his AIS. I know he’s gone because I know he went to go see his daughters wedding. I can go help myself to all his goodies on the boat.

and don’t even begin to tell me that doesn’t happen. I have already lost a bicycle, a rib, and Outboard, a kayak, and an anchor right off the bow. It happens a lot. They have also broken into my boat and stolen things from the inside.

And this is WITH anonymity.

And let’s not forget about swatting. It’s all the rage with the online psychos these days. Do you know what an internet foe could do to some of you guys? By tipping off people that there are drugs on your boat? Ever been woken up by guns pointed at your head in wee hours of the morning and had your life put in jeopardy from getting swatted?


so don’t take it too lightly. You guys are living in a different world. You’re living in the past. But the dangerous part is you are bringing those past values into the present. The world is not like it was before. The criminals are online now. And they will find you through this stuff.

not taking these simple precautions leaves you more wide open than going to sea without lifejackets. Or a life raft. Or any way to get off the boat if it burns or sinks. Just a bad idea. Foolish and unprepared.

Wow . . . . . . I'd really hate to go though live that fearful. I've been boating all life, and I've never had anything stolen from one of my boats. I'm truly sorry for your losses and hope that things work out better for you in the future.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by smj

How can AIS help to plan your approach and how in gods name can you estimate boat density without knowing what percentage of the boats have their AIS turned on?
As an example again. In a harbor with over 300 boats on moorings and anchored and 14 AIS signals. If I’m making my approach I’m overjoyed that the anchorage is empty!.......until reality hits me when I see with my EYEBALLS that it’s completely crowded.

Well ya know, I haven't entered a harbour with 300 boats on moorings recently, but knowing that there were lots of moorings, I'd be pretty cautious no matter what my AIS showed. and if there were indeed a lot of AIS signals shown, it would follow that the anchorage was well occupied, even if you didn't know exactly how many folks were there.

In our neck of the woods, there are lots of anchorages where five boats would be exceptional, and are not charted as such, and there even one AIS signal would help indicate that we had indeed located the anchorage. And planning an approach, well if one saw an AIS signal right in the entrance it would help plan avoiding such well before it suddenly appeared visually.

Now, to use your own language, how in god's name can you claim that broadcasting AIS at anchor is harmful and not useful to anyone? I and several other cruisers have noted some useful aspects to the practice, no one has cited a case where someone came to grief as a result of the broadcast, and, of course, you yourself are not required to broadcast or to receive others broadcasts.

It almost seems as if you are arguing for the sake of arguing, and that's ok. For now I'll give up, but only after reminding you that Ann and I have been living primarily at anchor for 37 years now, have entered a few (!) anchorages after dark in that time, both with modern appliances and without. Never hit another boat, made easier since installing radar some years back.

Oh yes, radar... that's what we rely upon for close quarter avoidance, that and a bright spotlight, and it has nothing to do with AIS!

Jim

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by BlueH2Obound

Wow . . . . . . I'd really hate to go though live that fearful. I've been boating all life, and I've never had anything stolen from one of my boats. I'm truly sorry for your losses and hope that things work out better for you in the future.

and they will work out. Because I have made sure they will. No more mistakes.

I can see you are in the Puget Sound. I’m sure there are no problems there. There are also no problems in Maine. Rhode Island. Even New York surprisingly enough. It’s all about Florida. that’s where people actively break into your boat. Or just steal things off deck.

The people threatening my boat were from places like Massachusetts and what not, but they don’t steal anything up there.

[PirateFoxy]

Originally Posted by Chotu

and they will work out. Because I have made sure they will. No more mistakes.

I can see you are in the Puget Sound. I’m sure there are no problems there. There are also no problems in Maine. Rhode Island. Even New York surprisingly enough. It’s all about Florida. that’s where people actively break into your boat. Or just steal things off deck.

The people threatening my boat were from places like Massachusetts and what not, but they don’t steal anything up there.

Until you've had a run in with a fruitloop from the internet, I think it can be hard to understand just now nuts some people out there can get over internet things. I've been online since the mid-90s and trying to maintain awareness of what information I'm sharing where is just a normal part of being online for me. And I'm not someone with a particularly high or polarizing profile. If I was I'm sure I'd be even more careful. Because there are people who are just Not Well out there and I don't really want to leave them a nice trail they can follow to come bother me in person.

[malbert73]

Back to original theme- I’ve entered a bunch of crowded anchorages at night and want to debunk the deck level vs masthead light thing. Deck level lights all blend together- and as Chotu said, even worse if there are shore lights. Also, they are very difficult to use to gauge distance. Masthead lights are very easy to pick out particularly at close range as they are against the sky.
Even worse of course when folks use solar garden lights as alternatives

Now, deck level lights as an addition to a proper masthead light are even better.
My strategy in busy harbors is to use my masthead light and also leave my foredeck light on. (led, lights up the forward 2/3 of the boat perfectly). Much brighter than a lone bulb.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by malbert73

Back to original theme- I’ve entered a bunch of crowded anchorages at night and want to debunk the deck level vs masthead light thing. Deck level lights all blend together- and as Chotu said, even worse if there are shore lights. Also, they are very difficult to use to gauge distance. Masthead lights are very easy to pick out particularly at close range as they are against the sky.
Even worse of course when folks use solar garden lights as alternatives

Now, deck level lights as an addition to a proper masthead light are even better.
My strategy in busy harbors is to use my masthead light and also leave my foredeck light on. (led, lights up the forward 2/3 of the boat perfectly). Much brighter than a lone bulb.

I could definitely take some pictures to prove this tonight.

Can show all of the boats that don’t have all around white lights at the top of their mast or at the top of their super structure is a power boat. And I can show a group of sailboats with masthead all around white lights. They are unmistakably obvious. The other deck level only lights just blend into the background lights as can be seen on the pics I already posted here.

Sometimes I find it funny that we even debate these things. I think the people that do the deck only lights are just cheap and not willing to maintain their boat. They are also taking a great risk because they are not complying with the law. When it comes to getting hit in the middle of the night, they are at fault.

We Often hear the argument that the masthead lights blend into the background. But that can only happen when you are a mile or more away. When it doesn’t matter. As you get near, they shoot skyward on the horizon and create an unmistakable line in the water between you and the boat

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by Chotu

It’s all about Florida. that’s where people actively break into your boat. Or just steal things off deck.

I have spend the best part of the last 6.5 years in Florida, both coasts. The only place I have come across this is in Marathon and Key West. And there the issue by far, like the only ones I have ever heard of, are between the anchored boats that are 1/2 step from being delerick and/or sinking. I am talking boats that are the boat version of trailers with trash all around the yard. Boat scum scum aren't different than land scum really. Scum mostly likes to take other scum's stuff.

If you are going to cruise around always assuming that someone is out to get you and steal you stuff you may want to consider a cabin in the woods somewhere instead.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

I have spend the best part of the last 6.5 years in Florida, both coasts. The only place I have come across this is in Marathon and Key West. And there the issue by far, like the only ones I have ever heard of, are between the anchored boats that are 1/2 step from being delerick and/or sinking. I am talking boats that are the boat version of trailers with trash all around the yard. Boat scum scum aren't different than land scum really. Scum mostly likes to take other scum's stuff.

If you are going to cruise around always assuming that someone is out to get you and steal you stuff you may want to consider a cabin in the woods somewhere instead.

So you have only been here half as long as me? Welcome.

Don’t come crying to me (or the forum) when it happens to you.

The boat bums are exactly the people who do it.

For what it’s worth, it happens when you’re not at the boat. If you’re on the boat you’re probably OK. And that’s why you haven’t got robbed yet. You don’t leave the boat.

I used to be stupid. I came from a nicer area. The north east. But after I was continually robbed, I smartened up.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Chotu

So you have only been here half as long as me? Welcome.

Don’t come crying to me (or the forum) when it happens to you.

For what it’s worth, it happens when you’re not at the boat. If you’re on the boat you’re probably OK. And that’s why you haven’t got robbed yet. You don’t leave the boat.

Precautions and security measures for leaving the boat unattended are definitely different than for when you're on the boat. No doubt about that. Things like cameras, maybe some motion triggered lights, etc. can all help at least some when you're off the boat as well.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

Precautions and security measures for leaving the boat unattended are definitely different than for when you're on the boat. No doubt about that. Things like cameras, maybe some motion triggered lights, etc. can all help at least some when you're off the boat as well.

Last time I was robbed, which is when they broke into the boat itself, they broke the cameras first. From a Blindspot.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Last time I was robbed, which is when they broke into the boat itself, they broke the cameras first. From a Blindspot.

That's always a risk. I think the challenge is to have good enough coverage that you'll get video of them before they can get close enough to get into a blind spot or close enough to reach the cameras. Or have cameras somewhere that's not easily reachable.

[ThereAndBack]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

I have spend the best part of the last 6.5 years in Florida, both coasts. The only place I have come across this is in Marathon and Key West. And there the issue by far, like the only ones I have ever heard of, are between the anchored boats that are 1/2 step from being delerick and/or sinking. I am talking boats that are the boat version of trailers with trash all around the yard. Boat scum scum aren't different than land scum really. Scum mostly likes to take other scum's stuff.

If you are going to cruise around always assuming that someone is out to get you and steal you stuff you may want to consider a cabin in the woods somewhere instead.

Y'all coming down to Georgetown anytime soon? I've got rum.