Hitting an anchored boat in a sparsely populated anchorage while under sail

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by smj

A well lit boat is courteous, AIS can be an unneeded distraction for those that choose to use it in those circumstances.

But again, that's an issue on the receiving end, not the transmitting end. By your logic, nobody should ever have AIS because some idiot might over-rely on it and hit someone. That's a damn stupid thought process.

[ThereAndBack]

Originally Posted by smj

A well lit boat is courteous, AIS can be an unneeded distraction for those that choose to use it in those circumstances.

We will continue to disagree. I think your conclusions are wrong. I think you assume the worst in other people. Your conclusions remind me of the people that thought GPS was bad and dangerous. And the people that said electronic charts were dangerous.



You seem to believe that because a tool can be misused it is inherently bad. I disagree.



As for all those inexperienced idiots out there leaving AIS on at anchor, here is a current snap of Georgetown in the Bahamas. Hint: A lot of these people have vast experience. AND THEY LIKE AIS .

[smj]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

But again, that's an issue on the receiving end, not the transmitting end. By your logic, nobody should ever have AIS because some idiot might over-rely on it and hit someone. That's a damn stupid thought process.

You really can’t grasp this can you? Your unneeded transmitting may cause grief for someone on the receiving end. Or do you just not care?
Ah, I see your an IT engineer, explains it all.

[smj]

Originally Posted by ThereAndBack

We will continue to disagree. I think your conclusions are wrong. I think you assume the worst in other people. Your conclusions remind me of the people that thought GPS was bad and dangerous. And the people that said electronic charts were dangerous.



You seem to believe that because a tool can be misused it is inherently bad. I disagree.



As for all those inexperienced idiots out there leaving AIS on at anchor, here is a current snap of Georgetown in the Bahamas. Hint: A lot of these people have vast experience. AND THEY LIKE AIS .

But should you rely on that while anchoring in the dark as just as many boats out there don’t have AIS on?
As I said AIS has its place, but in an anchorage or at a dock for the most part it’s an unnecessary distraction for most.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by smj

You really can’t grasp this can you? Your unneeded transmitting may cause grief for someone on the receiving end. Or do you just not care?
Ah, I see your an IT engineer, explains it all.

I absolutely grasp what you're saying, and I think it's 100% wrong. There's nothing specific about an anchorage that makes what you're saying an issue more than anywhere else. It's on the receiving end to be competent and use the tech correctly. Potential misuse by a receiver is not a valid reason to not transmit. There's just as much issue with not transmitting where a competent user could have benefited from you transmitting, but you weren't.


Thinking of another use case, if an anchorage is somewhat space limited and not visible as you pass by, you could grab the name of a boat in the anchorage from AIS, call them via VHF and get info on how full the anchorage is. Now you know if you'll be able to safely anchor there or if you should continue to somewhere else, possibly arriving before instead of after dark (safety improvement) because you didn't have to detour into the first anchorage to look around.



By your logic, AIS needs to go away entirely as someone could mis-use it anywhere, not just an anchorage. And as ThereAndBack said, at that point, you could argue to ditch the chartplotter entirely and go back to paper.

[Cwens]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

In this situation radar is certainly better. But most importantly, it has to be recognized what any of these tools are telling you. It's saying "hey, there's something in this spot." And in the case of AIS, it'll tell you a little about the boat if you care. It doesn't tell you that there's nothing in another spot though.

To be precise, what an AIS target on your chart plotter is telling you is "Somebody's claiming to be in this spot."

[smj]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

I absolutely grasp what you're saying, and I think it's 100% wrong. There's nothing specific about an anchorage that makes what you're saying an issue more than anywhere else. It's on the receiving end to be competent and use the tech correctly. Potential misuse by a receiver is not a valid reason to not transmit. There's just as much issue with not transmitting where a competent user could have benefited from you transmitting, but you weren't.


Thinking of another use case, if an anchorage is somewhat space limited and not visible as you pass by, you could grab the name of a boat in the anchorage from AIS, call them via VHF and get info on how full the anchorage is. Now you know if you'll be able to safely anchor there or if you should continue to somewhere else, possibly arriving before instead of after dark (safety improvement) because you didn't have to detour into the first anchorage to look around.



By your logic, AIS needs to go away entirely as someone could mis-use it anywhere, not just an anchorage. And as ThereAndBack said, at that point, you could argue to ditch the chartplotter entirely and go back to paper.

I could see using AIS if I HAD to anchor close to a commercial channel. But in the case of a recreational anchorage, no.
This of course is my opinion and some wouldn’t feel comfortable without their AIS on. My god how did we survive in an anchorage before AIS!

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by smj

I could see using AIS if I HAD to anchor close to a commercial channel. But in the case of a recreational anchorage, no.
This of course is my opinion and some wouldn’t feel comfortable without their AIS on. My god how did we survive in an anchorage before AIS!

In the case of an anchorage, it's not that AIS provides a big safety benefit, as you're pointing out. But there are times when it could be useful (and I'd bet that some of the same boats that broadcast AIS at anchor are also the ones that maintain a VHF watch at anchor).



Excluding incompetent boaters (who will always find a way to be dangerous), I still maintain that the worst thing that can happen from broadcasting AIS at anchor is that it gets ignored because nobody in the area found that information to be useful.

[smj]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

In the case of an anchorage, it's not that AIS provides a big safety benefit, as you're pointing out. But there are times when it could be useful (and I'd bet that some of the same boats that broadcast AIS at anchor are also the ones that maintain a VHF watch at anchor).



Excluding incompetent boaters (who will always find a way to be dangerous), I still maintain that the worst thing that can happen from broadcasting AIS at anchor is that it gets ignored because nobody in the area found that information to be useful.

If you feel comfortable using AIS in an anchorage, then I think you should continue doing so. When I enter an anchorage my eyeballs will be away from the screens and looking at my surroundings.

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by Chotu

A lot of people have expressed this in anchoring threads. Maybe even the majority. But here's what it looks like when not in the boat. It blends right in to the city backdrop.

The proper masthead would have made this boat much more visible.

The fact that the highest, coolest temperature light was a strobe rely hurt matters on this boat. Looks just like a radio tower or similar ashore as part of the city.

The deck level all around lights are directly in the path f you follow the light reflecting off the water. They are warmer temperature and gone. Very much part of the buildings.

PS: The fact that you can see the masts at all it’s just because of the camera. It has extreme night vision going on. In real life they are not visible.

Chotu your photo reveals exactly where there is an object in the water which is where the reflections of the shore lights [or of the moon on a moon lighted night] no longer are visible on the surface of the water.

One needs to be trained to observe WHAT IS NOT THERE as much as WHAT IS THERE.

Always look along the pathway of reflected lights on water to observe where such reflections are missing.

I do not know why this is not taught in all vessel navigation classes, it is basic MARK 1 Eyeball training and knowledge.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by smj

If you feel comfortable using AIS in an anchorage, then I think you should continue doing so. When I enter an anchorage my eyeballs will be away from the screens and looking at my surroundings.

I agree with you there, you use your eyes (and sometimes radar) when entering. In my mind, AIS might sometimes be useful *before* entering the anchorage (when you're not yet visual or radar may be blocked by land), but once you can see what's going on, AIS will just be ignored.

[Drunkonwatch]

It becomes a game did they turn it off before they got in the fish or psyching us out lol. I like it growing up in loran C days I’m into all the help I can get and anchored is kinda normal SOP. dismissing a navigational aide based on screen reliance is wrong it’s called self discipline. But then nvgs come on deck look for a spot or are they a distraction.

[smj]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

I agree with you there, you use your eyes (and sometimes radar) when entering. In my mind, AIS might sometimes be useful *before* entering the anchorage (when you're not yet visual or radar may be blocked by land), but once you can see what's going on, AIS will just be ignored.

That sounds reasonable, and hopefully others can follow your lead.

[Jammer]

There is little that I understand in this thread.

I do not understand why an anchored boat would operate a strobe.
I do not understand why an inexperienced skipper would sail through an anchorage at night while practicing how to tack.
I do not understand why anyone sailing at night in a 38' boat would not, have radar and use it.

Least of all do I understand what AIS has to do with any of this.

[ThereAndBack]

Originally Posted by Jammer

Least of all do I understand what AIS has to do with any of this.

It is called thread drift.