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Old 10-01-2022, 08:42   #31
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Re: Frustrated, stressed, and about to give up.

We recently posted our 2003 Chevy SSR for sale online at 4:00pm.
Within 1hr. we were flooded by so many responses we could not keep up.
A couple of hours later we changed the listing to
"First person to show up with cash takes her".

9:00pm same day we accepted a bag of cash for 25% more than we were asking. Two others showed up shortly after, one said he would have paid much more.

I simply no longer understand the market.
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Old 10-01-2022, 09:01   #32
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Re: Frustrated, stressed, and about to give up.

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Originally Posted by boatpoker View Post
We recently posted our 2003 Chevy SSR for sale online at 4:00pm.
Within 1hr. we were flooded by so many responses we could not keep up.
A couple of hours later we changed the listing to
"First person to show up with cash takes her".

9:00pm same day we accepted a bag of cash for 25% more than we were asking. Two others showed up shortly after, one said he would have paid much more.

I simply no longer understand the market.
Not familiar with the SSR but from the photo it's some special model?

Maybe that's why my experience trying to sell a Toyota Highlander was the exact opposite. Within hours of posting online for sale I was flooded with scammer emails offering to send cashiers checks (all fake), phony bank checks, etc. Then I started getting legit offers for 1/3-1/2 of what I was asking. Then my truck broke down so decided to keep it another few months until I could get a new one.

What site did you use to advertise your truck? Maybe I need to use a different sales channel.
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Old 10-01-2022, 09:14   #33
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Re: Frustrated, stressed, and about to give up.

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Originally Posted by skipmac View Post
Not familiar with the SSR but from the photo it's some special model?

Maybe that's why my experience trying to sell a Toyota Highlander was the exact opposite. Within hours of posting online for sale I was flooded with scammer emails offering to send cashiers checks (all fake), phony bank checks, etc. Then I started getting legit offers for 1/3-1/2 of what I was asking. Then my truck broke down so decided to keep it another few months until I could get a new one.

What site did you use to advertise your truck? Maybe I need to use a different sales channel.
Chevy made the SSR hardtop convertible between 2003 - 2006.
We have a very active online sales platform in Canada Kijiji.ca
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Old 10-01-2022, 09:26   #34
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Re: Frustrated, stressed, and about to give up.

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Originally Posted by MicHughV View Post
I wish I could see where this "seller's" market is ???

I don't see this as a "seller's market at all....

I peruse several yacht brokerage websites, and see the same boats, week after week, month after month, most with " price recently reduced" signs on them.
Mostly if a boat has been languishing on a broker's website these days, it's because it's crap... or it's OK but the easking price much higher than sane folks can (or are willing to) pay.


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Originally Posted by MicHughV View Post
I can't speak for the European market obviously, but in my neck of the woods...Florida....it's not a seller's market at all.

Interestingly, we have a big Powerboat brokerage firm here, MarineMax. A year ago, their lot would be filled from one end to the other with boats for sale. All sizes. These days, they have only one, and it's been there for a while.

I also peruse "YachtWorld" listings, they have gazillions of boats for sale there...
Yeah, lack of good inventory is another sign of seller's market. Car dealerships around here are the same.

Yachtworld listings often repeat that "crap or too much $$$" paradigm.

We started shopping in roughly March of 2020 (after selling our last boat in approx 6 hours)... and it took more than a year to put together a deal on an available boat at a reasonable price that we could afford. Partly because there are also buyers out there willing/able to pay $100K or more MORE than a boat used to be worth... and we couldn't really compete with all that. Scores of boats already had offers by the time they were listed on YW, so the YW entry seemed to be about generating offers even higher than ask, higher than the initial offers on the table.

Florida was the same as everywhere else. And the boat we ended up with came from Florida, seriously neglected by the most recent previous owner. As were many of the others we saw, same model, with higher asking prices.

-Chris
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Old 10-01-2022, 10:00   #35
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Re: Frustrated, stressed, and about to give up.

Meant to also include, members on two different owners forums (our previous, our current) pretty much agree, what's out there is either crap, the asking price is WAY too high (not just too high), or boats are already under contract at full asking price or above by the time the listing hits the streets.

Our experience, and that of our friends who've been shopping since May 2020 (actually surveyed 3 boats and walked from each) and still haven't found a boat that suits, all suggests there's a lot of crap out there.

-Chris
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Old 10-01-2022, 10:03   #36
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Re: Frustrated, stressed, and about to give up.

This may sound wacked but try Bermuda. There are dozens of boats here totally underutilized and nobody buying. Import duty for a local boat [like VAT in EU] will be factored in but you never know. Maybe there's a motivated, realistic seller out there. Try emoo.bm ; our local buy and sell market post a 'Wanted to buy" I know of a couple of Tianna's Beneteau's etc
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Old 10-01-2022, 10:08   #37
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Re: Frustrated, stressed, and about to give up.

The boat market is always the first to crash when things turn sour ...
It's coming ! (My guess, within a year when interest rates start to go up and it's choice of toy or home mtge). This will be about the same time that all these noobs find out what a boat really costs ... the perfect storm for the boat market !
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Old 10-01-2022, 10:58   #38
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Re: Frustrated, stressed, and about to give up.

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Originally Posted by alctel View Post
Have you thought about getting a small boat (~24') to mess around on till the market settles out?

There are lots of these coming and going so pretty easy to pick up and it'll help in a few ways

- you'll improve your sailing
- you'll meet people down at the dock, the marine store etc, which will lead to stuff like 'oh yeah my friend Jake is going to sell his boat, i can give you his number if you like'
This is what I just did. I am trying a bit of a hybrid approach to cruising, which is to buy a trailer sailer to do day sailing and maybe a few overnights on the Chesapeake and then bareboat charter as much as I can.
As several posters have already stated - the market is pretty hot even for boats like this. I lost out on purchasing a mint 2018 Catalina 22 sport about 6 weeks ago. It went for $27K. As others have pointed out, I lost out partly because I was remote and the winning buyer was local. I ended up with a 2016 model and had to pay $26K for it. I think you will all tell me I have overpaid - but I am not sure I care. To wait until the market cools probably means waiting for the pandemic to end, which I am not sure I can foretell. And, in the big picture, if I paid a few $K too much, whatever...
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Old 10-01-2022, 13:02   #39
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Re: Frustrated, stressed, and about to give up.

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Originally Posted by rbrazil View Post
Don’t give up. How about a change of perspective? The searching process gives you knowledge. The searching process allows you to see lots of boats and the differences in each one. The more you search the more you learn. Looking at boats online or in person should be viewed as part of the cruisers life. You don’t become a cruiser when you buy a boat; you become a cruiser when you are one in your brain. Enjoy the search process. Its free! Once you buy a boat, you will be glad you looked at TONS of boats because you will have valuable knowledge you didnt have before. This knowledge could save you TONS of money. The boat search process can be viewed as fun; each boat becomes a first date of sorts. You fall in love with one and someone else swoops in. Then you see another one and fall in love again. Hang in there! Slow down, enjoy the process, learn, note the subtle differences between boats, talk to people, make friends, listen to their stories, allow the process to be a part of your cruising life. Once you get your boat, you can look back on the process with a smile and tell your story to the next sucker dumb enough to buy a boat!! LOL. (I say this to the other boat owners who know what I’m talking about)
Good luck and happy sailing!!
OP, I couldn't agree more with this comment. ^

I'd only add one thing, which is when you see someone with a boat you like at the dock, or in your area on this forum, or wherever, ask them to take you out for a sail.

Most boaters will be glad to. Anyone on this forum giving you advice, chances are, would at the very least invite you on board to look at their boat.

You get experience, you learn what you like and don't like, what you want and don't want, and you get to go boating now, to borrow a phrase.

Shoot, if you were in my area, there are twenty boats I'd take you out on (assuming we got along on that first sail )

Also, the broker's perspective from a boat owner's perspective couldn't have been summarized better than MicHugh did it here: https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ml#post3550929
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Old 12-01-2022, 18:00   #40
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Re: Frustrated, stressed, and about to give up.

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Originally Posted by Pepijn View Post
Yeah, Moody's I gave up.
Budget is 110-120k Euro. Preferably with genset, watermaker, etc. for longterm cruising. Found some nice Bennies 44CC, but 1 out of budget, the other seems to have headliner issues (but perhaps I could consider it, but it seems a hell of a job to replace).

Looked at the Trintella's, interesting good boats but interior and lack of swimplatform/scoop is what bothers me. I am 1.98m and not sure about the pullman berths to climb over partner.
Not sure on the boat's age you are thinking of, also not the planned area and type of cruising - this can broaden or limit your selection. The above budget could help you to get certain boats in certain areas, easier than where and what you might be looking.

Iv'e purchased my last boat in 2019 after more than 8 months of search, including travel, in the US East Coast, the Med (Italy, Sovania, Croatia, Israel) and the Caribbean, but I was quite particular with my short list of builders, design and features. It was my most time consuming search out of all the five boats purchased over the last 25 years.

Headliners can be replaced - You should be happy if this is going to be the only issue. Swim platform (folded or fixed) can be added to most boats - if you find the right boat, consider time and extra expenses at any case for a refit.

Just keep flexible as any boat is a compromise and keep looking, by taking your time, better not under any pressure to purchase anything if it doesn't match your preferences and budget.
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Old 13-01-2022, 01:05   #41
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Re: Frustrated, stressed, and about to give up.

I don't know that I would "give up," but it would be helpful to know a bit more about what you are searching for and why? I searched for at least four years and that was not in a Seller's market. In the end, the boat I got was not on my list and at first glance wasn't what I wanted, but turned out to be just about perfect for me. $120 Euro may be plenty or not nearly enough, it all depends on your needs and goals. A 44' ocean-going boat is going to be a bit much on that budget, and that was as true five year ago as much as it is today.

I second the advice that you should at least make a phone call to the broker and establish that you are a serious potential buyer. I also recommend getting a buyer's broker - yes, that will split the commission, but it also potentially gets you someone who not only can give good advice, but also establishes you are serious and probably knows some of the brokers personally.

Now that I've owned a boat a few years and have spent a LOT of time in the various boat yards and marinas, I wouldn't hesitate to go walk around some places, talk to people, and write down the names of any boats I was interested in for follow-up. Many boats sit untouched for months or years and if you are willing to do the leg work you may find someone is happy to sell you their boat at a reasonable price if it doesn't require them to give too much thought to it.

I'm not active in the market right now, but I'm guessing any conversation that starts with a suggestion of a lower price is not going to go far. You may end up offering less, but that should be based on things you observe on the boat and some basis for feeling the boat should go for less, not on a gut feeling in a Seller's market.

Finally, consider expanding your list. I just did a quick search on Yachtworld for four of the boats I was searching for back in 2015 and found they are all listed at less than $100k USD. Now, they may be too small, or crap condition, or who knows, but at least a few looked decent and at least look good based on the listing. My interest was in 37' - 40' boats I could go pretty much anyplace in. There are many opinions on what boat, etc., is best for what, but a boat you can afford, find, and sail is better than one you can't.

Just my .02.

Good luck!
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Old 13-01-2022, 02:21   #42
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Re: Frustrated, stressed, and about to give up.

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Walk the docks in your area. Ask for permission from the Dock Master and look for for sale signs.
in Czech Republic. how you think walk around docks in Czech Republic
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Old 13-01-2022, 02:23   #43
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Re: Frustrated, stressed, and about to give up.

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Here I am, it was 3am this morning, waking up and my first thing is to go on internet looking for boats to buy. Day after day.

without make or specs. Some brokers are downplaying some of the issues, etc.
Pepin this is really hard time for buying used boats. Simply make more money and buy new put on charter 3-4 year and for 5-6 year you have used boat.
i thinking buying new CAT in October,but i must close financial side before put money. and now i finish financial side but all slots is sold now waiting over 2 1/2 except one FP for aprill but price is over 30% from new order
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Old 13-01-2022, 15:05   #44
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Re: Frustrated, stressed, and about to give up.

For boats that are nearly new (say less than 10 years old) and in primo shape this is a sellers' market. But if you want to buy a solid cruising boat, especially from the '80s, and you are willing to do the necessary repairs and upgrades, this is a great time to buy. My boat (home) is one dock away from a brokerage dock and there are several good cruising boats that have been there for more than a year. Yes, the asking prices seem high on some but that is just a negotiating position - cash talks very loudly right now. And some work will usually be needed, but the result will be much more affordable. If the goal is to go cruising, and not just to have a trophy boat, it can be done at historically low costs (for the boat at least).

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Old 18-01-2022, 12:24   #45
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Re: Frustrated, stressed, and about to give up.

Hi all, I am so sorry to have neglected timely responses to you all! I just read all the comments and appreciate all of your input. There was an early poster about going now because time is valuable too, which choked up my wife! So true...

And yes, walking the docks and see lots of boats is not easy from Czech Republic.

Anyway, let me update you all about what transpired these last 2 weeks...

After we got in a dip about the search we decided to hunt down a boat we liked much (but the broker did not act on our initial contact about it) via an intensive internet search on the name of the boat. We managed to reach out to the current owners through FB and they responded nicely (and yes, I asked, about the broker agreement they had, but they said it was simple: if the broker found one they pay up, if they find someone they deal without the broker).

So we managed to bring the price down (of course it helped them not having to pay the broker) to 130k. We probably still paid premium, but ok I was willing to accept it. And only on the condition that anything found by the surveyor would be for their account. That was fine according the owners.

So we paid for the haul out and the survey. We traveled down to Turkey last Sunday (oh boy, the trip is another story in itself) and met up with the owners yesterday. Absolutely a lovely and friendly couple! Sad part is that after preparing the boat for circumnavigation the last 4 years, they have to let go of their dream due to personal reasons. A lot of equipment and instrumentation was renewed (it was great to see that they left all the old and still working instrumentation in place for redundancy, such as autopilot, radar, wind, depths, chartplotter, etc.). A lovely boat, ready to go so to speak!

Then the surveyor came today. Inspected the boat on his first of 2 days inspection and found the following issues:
- The moisture measurements were still high accross the entire hull, most likely because the boat has been on the hard for just 5 days in relative cold weather. He recommended some more time. Tapping did not reveal any problems so far. He will do another measurement on the day we plan the seatrial which is at least 2 weeks from now.
- There were paint bubbles on the keel due to poor application previously done by another yard elsewhere. A matter of grit blasting it and reprime and paint again before anti fouling. No issue there, owner agreed to do for their own account.

- The last, but also my biggest concern for which I seek your input: the teak deck! (I know I open another can of discussions with having a teak deck or not) The teak deck was entirely replaced in 2017 (which was a big pro for us, as we do not need to worry for another 10-15 years), however the surveyor noticed through tapping that both PS/SB sides had many places where the teak was not properly attached to the deck. In some the water even started to squirt out through "pin" holes in the caulking. The aft deck (behind the cockpit) was all fine. The way it was laid showed poor workmanship (the spaces between the teak were of different widths). Also, the new teak was laid with screws again, something I don't understand why. I know from other forum discussion that this job can amount up to 15k Euro if not more. The owners again agreed to resolve it (about 60% need to be redone), however, I do not know what is going on underneath the teak.

\the boat is a Beneteau 44CC from 1998!

A couple of questions:
1. Does anyone know the sandwich structure of the deck. I believe that it is a balsa cored deck (I asked the surveyor but he could not firmly confirm it). Anyone else can confirm?
2. How likely is it that the toplayer is compromised by the screws and that water has entered the balsa core?
3. Is there any other way to investigate this without any destructive testing?

We spent close to 2500 Euro for the trip, the survey, and haul out. But those costs will dwarf by the possibility to have the core replaced.

Any advice/opinions?
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