Fed up of yacht review quality!

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by LostBiker

TA-DA! And we have a winner! Advertisers will never call something "crap". Not if they want to stay in business.



But I've also seen people buy junk just because it looked good. My wife still brings that up even after 35 years

Wives never forget!

[Mike OReilly]

I think some of you are lamenting for a time that never was, at least not with narrow-cast pubs like those found in the sailing and cruising world.

As long as a media depends on advertisers to pay the bills, there will always be a tension between the editorial department and the ad department. Publications that depend on a wide cross-section of advertising can afford to hard-hitting (think large news organizations or small-town, one-media pubs).

Those that rely on a small group of advertisers has far less ability to bite the hand that feeds them. Trade and niché market pubs have always operated in this latter group. It has gotten worse in the sense of corporate consolidation, but the basic challenge in a niché market is that there are few companies paying most of the bills.

Of course, there is a model that works: have the readers and viewers pay the bills. But few of us are willing to pay the real cost of these publications (physical or online). The sticker price has traditionally accounted for a small percentage (~10%) of a publication's revenue.

So we're stuck with the advertising model, which makes it very hard for critical journalism to operate.

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

I think some of you are lamenting for a time that never was, at least not with narrow-cast pubs like those found in the sailing and cruising world.

As long as a media depends on advertisers to pay the bills, there will always be a tension between the editorial department and the ad department. Publications that depend on a wide cross-section of advertising can afford to hard-hitting (think large news organizations or small-town, one-media pubs).

Those that rely on a small group of advertisers has far less ability to bite the hand that feeds them. Trade and niché market pubs have always operated in this latter group. It has gotten worse in the sense of corporate consolidation, but the basic challenge in a niché market is that there are few companies paying most of the bills.

Of course, there is a model that works: have the readers and viewers pay the bills. But few of us are willing to pay the real cost of these publications (physical or online). The sticker price has traditionally accounted for a small percentage (~10%) of a publication's revenue.

So we're stuck with the advertising model, which makes it very hard for critical journalism to operate.

Good points, Mike.


One outlier was Good Old Boat. And even after they brought in ads, they kept up the good work. Articles written by real users. How quaint!

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

Good points, Mike.

One outlier was Good Old Boat. And even after they brought in ads, they kept up the good work. Articles written by real users. How quaint!

Yes, I love GOB! Shows there are exceptions to every rule.

I suspect they're able to avoid the problems because their niché is old boats. Not a lot of big corporate advertising spent selling old models, so they rely on a lot of smaller companies. Plus, I bet their circulation revenue accounts for more than the norm.

[captmikem]

Originally Posted by redneckrob

What part of the moderator saying just a few posts ago "Although there is lots to say about "the press" in general, this is not the place to say it :-)" did you not understand? Good grief, is it that hard to keep one's personal politics out of a cruiser discussion when nicely asked?

That is funny, however your sarcasm is probably a lot closer to the truth for the people who want to censor, divide and control.

[AKA-None]

Originally Posted by LostBiker

TA-DA! And we have a winner! Advertisers will never call something "crap". Not if they want to stay in business.



But I've also seen people buy junk just because it looked good. My wife still brings that up even after 35 years

Oooo she should be careful with a statement like that

[SailingFan]

Originally Posted by Joh.Ghurt

Littlewing, I was just being polite. As everyone knows, an Admiral is a commander of a fleet with many vessels and has multiple captains to choose from. I didn't want to imply said lady is hopping from captain to captain depending on the mood of the day. This wouldn't be considered honourable in all places.

Ok, you got me!! Love it!!

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by LostBiker

TA-DA! And we have a winner! Advertisers will never call something "crap". Not if they want to stay in business.



But I've also seen people buy junk just because it looked good. My wife still brings that up even after 35 years

Are you indicating you looked good and she's regretted marrying you for 35yr?

[Macrophylla]

The premise of this topic seems silly to me. Who really expects a true review of anything from a 3rd party? I use “reviews” to compare options and narrow the field then do my own review according to my intended use. Outsourcing assessment of anything from a boat down to a book only makes sense if you want to have someone else to blame for a poor decision.

Even highly critical / negative reviews (youtubers and Internet forums) come from the perspective of the reviewer. Unless your needs are identical it’s pointless to use the review for anything other than specs and pictures.

In the end narrow down the list, visit the boat shows and get on board, charter on those that are available in charter and browse the forums to look for trends in repair and flaws on specific systems so you are well informed. The only person you should trust to make a recommendation is yourself.

[redneckrob]

Originally Posted by Macrophylla

The premise of this topic seems silly to me. Who really expects a true review of anything from a 3rd party? I use “reviews” to compare options and narrow the field then do my own review according to my intended use. Outsourcing assessment of anything from a boat down to a book only makes sense if you want to have someone else to blame for a poor decision.

Even highly critical / negative reviews (youtubers and Internet forums) come from the perspective of the reviewer. Unless your needs are identical it’s pointless to use the review for anything other than specs and pictures.

In the end narrow down the list, visit the boat shows and get on board, charter on those that are available in charter and browse the forums to look for trends in repair and flaws on specific systems so you are well informed. The only person you should trust to make a recommendation is yourself.

That's a pretty limiting view. If a handful of people report that a certain engine tends to catch of fire due to faulty fuel line design, for example, why insist on experiencing that for yourself before taking it into account? In fact the nature of poor quality control is such that you might well charter a copy of a boat that had the company's top crew working on it while a dozen other people might own other copies of that same boat that was much more poorly made...or vice versa. We've got a spectacular resource on our hand of user reviews that allows us to benefit from the experience of dozens or hundreds of people without reinventing the wheel ourselves and without having to resort to the niche industry press that we know is incented not to bite the hand that feeds them. While you have to know how to filter the shills and the always negative folks, it seems crazy to actively avoid the experiences of others when making a big decision of any kind and certainly when it comes to experiences of those on boats of the same model one is considering buying.

[Lepke]

Magazines get advertisers but having their magazines sent to the right zip code or to people that own yachts over a certain size. I get Sea magazine sent to me free (I gave up trying to stop it) and I toss it when I pick up my mail. It's all BS and ads. The stories are often written by people who have never been where the story takes place. They're writers, nothing else. I imagine the reviews are written from the brochure. I doubt the writer was ever aboard.

[Panama Red]

Originally Posted by dr.j.levy

Hello all,

Seems that reading a review on new sail yachts is a total waste of time.

Would value thoughts …

Why? You answered your own question!

If you want to find out about boats, talk to owners, boat builders and boat yards.

It might surprise you how much you can learn from the person who built or repairs the boat versus talking to the marketing/sales.

[Macrophylla]

Originally Posted by redneckrob

That's a pretty limiting view. If a handful of people report that a certain engine tends to catch of fire due to faulty fuel line design, for example, why insist on experiencing that for yourself before taking it into account? In fact the nature of poor quality control is such that you might well charter a copy of a boat that had the company's top crew working on it while a dozen other people might own other copies of that same boat that was much more poorly made...or vice versa. We've got a spectacular resource on our hand of user reviews that allows us to benefit from the experience of dozens or hundreds of people without reinventing the wheel ourselves and without having to resort to the niche industry press that we know is incented not to bite the hand that feeds them. While you have to know how to filter the shills and the always negative folks, it seems crazy to actively avoid the experiences of others when making a big decision of any kind and certainly when it comes to experiences of those on boats of the same model one is considering buying.

You appear to have completely missed or ignored the last paragraph of my response (copied it below) which deals with major system faults.

That said, in your example above, what you are looking for is the opinion of a marine surveyor, naval engineer, or an exceptionally experienced technician. While a few of these folks blog and probably more of them consult with manufacturers, expecting that level of expertise and detail in a boat review, which is a marketing tool, not a surveying tool, is silly.

I've walked on boats that on paper look good, on youtube look good, balanced good/bad on Internet forums and after 30 seconds on board, I knew it wasn't going to be the boat for us, but it's probably a good boat for someone. There aren't that many true "garbage" boats out there if you exclude one-offs.

And users reviews... Amazon has convinced the world that users are credible at reviewing things, they aren't, but it sure does make it easier to "add to cart".

"In the end narrow down the list, visit the boat shows and get on board, charter on those that are available in charter and browse the forums to look for trends in repair and flaws on specific systems so you are well informed. The only person you should trust to make a recommendation is yourself"

[redneckrob]

Originally Posted by Macrophylla

You appear to have completely missed or ignored the last paragraph of my response (copied it below) which deals with major system faults.

That said, in your example above, what you are looking for is the opinion of a marine surveyor, naval engineer, or an exceptionally experienced technician. While a few of these folks blog and probably more of them consult with manufacturers, expecting that level of expertise and detail in a boat review, which is a marketing tool, not a surveying tool, is silly.

I've walked on boats that on paper look good, on youtube look good, balanced good/bad on Internet forums and after 30 seconds on board, I knew it wasn't going to be the boat for us, but it's probably a good boat for someone. There aren't that many true "garbage" boats out there if you exclude one-offs.

And users reviews... Amazon has convinced the world that users are credible at reviewing things, they aren't, but it sure does make it easier to "add to cart".

"In the end narrow down the list, visit the boat shows and get on board, charter on those that are available in charter and browse the forums to look for trends in repair and flaws on specific systems so you are well informed. The only person you should trust to make a recommendation is yourself"

I did miss your last sentence, I apologize.

[oceanluvr]

I agree with so many of these responses, however I must add, that there are probably more dodo birds around then real 'journalist'. Unbiased news or in this case reviews are a thing of the past. Even health research studies done by universities are now colored by the agency or corporation funding them.



The only review of a boat I would rely on is if it is written by an owner and the more owner's who chime in, the better and even that must be tempered knowing there may be some bias.