Embarrassing story, seeking advice

[IDsailingDoc]

When I completed level 103 my instructor said. This doesn’t mean you know how to sail, it means you make you mistakes legally. I passed 103 age 58 now 62 and still learning

[BarrieRobertson]

You have probably learned at least three things that were not taught in your basic keel boat class. 1. sit on the windward side of the boat, 2 jump like a cat, 3 sailing centreboard boats do not have positive stability with a wind YOU have to keep them balanced, 4 lifejackets are a very good thing. You are more informed now than the first time you went out. to be a good dingy sailor you have to sail close to the line. If you go over the line, you dump. You will always be learning if you keep at it.

[Icarus]

We all go through some sort of mishaps now and then, nothing to worry about..it's part of the learning curve.
Keep at it!

[sailpower]

Originally Posted by LoudMusic

The master has failed more times than the novice has attempted.

Excellent comment!

[sailpower]

When attempting to sail a boat capable of capsizing, it will capsize.

[brucebach]

I'm a 57-year old (male) college professor. Don't worry about it at all. It's quite easy/common to flip those little things - I did many times and not much later sailed my 36' boat from New England to South America and back to the Chesapeake. Get out there on a larger boat, that's why we have the summer off, right ;-)

[Cloroxbottle]

Originally Posted by ppvora

The first time I went out, the wind at the local lake was going 7-8 knots with gusts of upto 10. I went out maybe 0.5 NM and turned in such a way that the boat keeled over on the side that I was sitting. In a split second I was thrown overboard and the boat flipped over with me underneath. I was wearing my life-jacket, and without realizing it even, I was able to raise the hull and come out from underneath.

This is what little sailing dinghies do. It's the nature of learning to sail in a light craft. I flipped a sunfish the second time I was out in it and was unceremoniously dumped into the water.

A lot of people say that this is the right way to learn sailing, but I disagree. Sailing a little boat like that tells you about as much about whether you're going to like sailing a 28+ foot vessel as flying an ultralight - or maybe hang gliding - tells you whether you are going to like flying a commercial jet.

Congratulations on completing your first sailing course. Now go take a basic keelboat and coastal cruising course. Go on a week long liveaboard cruise. Get a proper sailboat and leave the sailing dinghies for the kids.

[Unregistered-1]

Originally Posted by Cloroxbottle

This is what little sailing dinghies do. It's the nature of learning to sail in a light craft. I flipped a sunfish the second time I was out in it and was unceremoniously dumped into the water.

Perhaps you didn't like that and you object? Well, you can of course "not like it" and "object" whilst you are inshore and the club patrol boat can pluck you from the water and you can show your displeasure and perhaps "not like it" today.

But what of your 40 ft'er cruiser when you have a problem offshore and you have the same attitude? Now you get to watch your family die, don't you.

Originally Posted by Cloroxbottle

Sailing a little boat like that tells you about as much about whether you're going to like sailing a 28+ foot vessel as flying an ultralight - or maybe hang gliding - tells you whether you are going to like flying a commercial jet.

If you are still deciding whether you like it, then you are no cruising skipper.

The skipper decided a long time ago that he liked it, along with quite a few other things too, including that he didn't show annoyance or umbrage at being "unceremoniously dumped into the water", or that was anyone elses' fault or responsibility but his own.

Only go to sea (or anywhere else or that matter) with people who take their responsibilities dead seriously, and on boats that means you can throw anything you like to your captain and he will flick it off without a blink and put the current situation right.

I'm a paraglider pilot, and the violent lessons learned I can tell you puts a person in extremely good stead for being an airline captain (which I am not...) Put your fears aside and fix it now son, or watch your family die. Or get offended at your dumping....

[Cloroxbottle]

Originally Posted by SteveWrightNZ

I'm a paraglider pilot, and the violent lessons learned I can tell you puts a person in extremely good stead for being an airline captain (which I am not...)

I am, they don't.

Put your fears aside and fix it now son, or watch your family die. Or get offended at your dumping....

I think you've mistaken my recommendation that people begin their sailing careers by training on smaller vessels with similar design characteristics and in-water behavior as the one they intend to own or cruise for something else. This was not a recommendation to get in over your head, or set sail without a proper knowledge base - which is something you should never stop acquiring.

I suppose while I'm overturning tables in the temple, I'll go ahead and recommend that most people do not need to bother carrying expensive and bulky paper charts or learn celestial navigation when a chart plotter and a couple of iPads gives you three levels of navigational redundancy.

[jtsailjt]

Originally Posted by SteveWrightNZ

I'm a paraglider pilot, and the violent lessons learned I can tell you puts a person in extremely good stead for being an airline captain (which I am not...) Put your fears aside and fix it now son, or watch your family die. Or get offended at your dumping....

I'm not sure whether you are joking about being a para glider pilot preparing someone to be an airline captain or not, but I am very sure that para gliding has VERY little in common with being an airline captain. I have been an airline captain for over 20 years now and my stick and rudder skills have very little to do with success as a captain. Only once in a very great while do my good "hands" play an important role. On the other hand, leadership, an ability to step back and remain focused on the "big picture" when people and events are both trying their level best to distract you, having the courage to make the right decision and sticking to it even if it's unpopular or inconvenient, managing your crew and interfacing effectively with support people such as ATC, ground crews, and company dispatchers and maintenance all play important roles every day in having success as an airline captain. When I was younger I was a fighter pilot and happen to have always had a good aptitude for controlling an airplane smoothly and making soft landings, etc. but I really don't think that's very important at all compared to the other characteristics I've mentioned.

I'd compare capsizing a dinghy to a young pilot making a hard landing in one of his first attempts due to a 5 knot gust that he'd barely notice in an airliner. It's entirely to be expected and has almost no relevance to what kind of skipper or helmsman he might eventually become. We all must learn to walk before we run and learning to sail a dinghy is a good way (but not the only way) to take those first unsteady steps.

[Unregistered-1]

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

Only once in a very great while do my good "hands" play an important role. On the other hand, leadership, an ability to step back and remain focused on the "big picture" when people and events are both trying their level best to distract you, having the courage to make the right decision and sticking to it even if it's unpopular or inconvenient

Of course. Mostly you just do the paperwork and look out the window. You only need all your experience when deep down inside you have to decide whether put the plane in the hudson or stay over land. Same goes with a paraglider, or an airliner, OR a yacht. When you need it, you better have it, or you better make it up - but there's no ignoring it.

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

When I was younger I was a fighter pilot and happen to have always had a good aptitude for controlling an airplane smoothly and making soft landings, etc. but I really don't think that's very important at all compared to the other characteristics I've mentioned.

Exactly. You can be a career armchair skipper or pilot, fully current on type and never putting a foot wrong. But would this person have the skills to fix or prevent a catastrophe?

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

I'd compare capsizing a dinghy to a young pilot making a hard landing in one of his first attempts due to a 5 knot gust that he'd barely notice in an airliner. It's entirely to be expected and has almost no relevance to what kind of skipper or helmsman he might eventually become. We all must learn to walk before we run and learning to sail a dinghy is a good way (but not the only way) to take those first unsteady steps.

Depends what you want. A long-term cruising skipper in a 40ft boat doing ocean crossings had better be a "stick and rudder pilot" in my opinion. The chances of having to deal with (before it deals to you) type situation is rather high, and the number of knock-down stories I've read suggest that the scenario is not just real, but it's inevitable.

By the way, if you haven't soloed a paraglider, I encourage all pilots to try it. It's a fully-addictive beach activity with your feet in the sand and your knees in the breeze, and loads of time to look out the window!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwyZDGxFTxU

[Janeke]

Hi
I see you have already had many replies however I thought I would add my pennies worth.

I have been boating for over 40 years but mainly I dare to say stink boats.
Yes I saw the light and bought a 51 foot Formosa Ketch but I'm not and don't class myself as a sailor.
I have all of the documentation to say I know what I'm doing but I'm in the med and it's all stern mooring.
This ketch has a mind of it's own when reversing, so like you I went through the depression and feeling stupid when I got it wrong, believe me there is always an audience when things go wrong, anyway let me say I have seen more stink boats with 2 engines, bow thruster and stern thruster make a bigger mess of mooring than me, so don't panic persevere, it's taken me 4 years to tame mine and she still catches me out, so I say it's been a good day no one died.
Practice and enjoy and don't worry about other people. because most couldn't do any better.
All the best Peter

[parkstone bay]

Pretty well all single-shaft drive boats (whether powerboats or sailboats with auxiliary) are pigs to handle in astern under engine. There are several factors: the rudder is less effective; prop-walk is more pronounced; windage is more pronounced; and the audience is more obvious.
When I was doing powerboat training, I'd remind my students: give yourself time, especially to judge the effects of wind and current - bear in mind that with nearly all boats the bow blows off in the wind (which can sometimes be handy) - remember which way the stern goes when you're in astern - plenty of appropriate fenders - use of springs and warps - don't rush things - keep cool. (Eg. so long as there is a bit of room ahead, if she's gone skew-wiff on the sternboard, a "get out of jail" card is a VERY short touch of AHEAD, (maybe only a second or two) with the appropriate rudder, to correct the angle, then continue with the astern manoeuvre. You may have to use this dodge one or twice, but I recommend it.) I would also remind my students that there are no new mistakes in boating, they've all been done before. And the instructors have done most of them, themselves.

[CaptainDana]

Keep at it. I learned as a 7 yearold kid in Hawaii that being underwater is actually kind of fun. The fact that I'm comfortable swimming under, around and through stuff has saved my life at least a couple of times. You said that you 'lifted the boat' to get out from under. That's impossible in a bigger boat. Learn to open your eyes underwater, think underwater, maneuver underwater. This is not a sailing skill. It's a swimming skill. If you are not a good swimmer, become one.

As for sailing a dinghy, it's the very best way to learn. If you can sail a monohull dinghy, you can sail ANYTHING. Good Luck.

[dkenny64]

while I've not read all the replies.


for the big question is your reaction?
oh crap I'm going to die?

or heck yea that was fun..let's do it again..


going to die - give up now..
let's to do it again..keep learning and growing..
bigger boat can heel over too..took mine over 20 degrees today.
put stuff inside everywhere... before other flame me..
20 in some is normal..mine 10-15 is normal..10 more so..
she's a larger heavy boat with high sides..


I digress.. what was your reaction?


-dkenny64