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08-08-2022, 08:23
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#16
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Whitby, Canada
Boat: Morgan Out Island 41
Posts: 2,251
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Re: Docking Ego Shattered
The only way you don't mess up a docking is by not leaving the slip. some you nail, some you just make and then there are the ones that when you finish you think WTF happened there! I've had one of those recently, had a great sail, came into the dock and did 2 things wrong. Turned to early, and came in too hot! ended up with my stern spring in the right spot but too much speed pulled the bow in and I got a nice 3 inch gelcoat scar as my reward! Oh well, crack out the dremel, some gelcoat and fix her back up! As captain Ron said "if its gonna happen, its gonna happen out there" I.E. you have to go sailing to have fun and ya, sometimes things don't always go as planed!
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08-08-2022, 16:50
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#17
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Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 6,190
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Re: Docking Ego Shattered
Oh, well, Gt — all's well that ends well :-)!
One of the realities of life is that the Hunter35.5, and all other modern fin-keeled, high aspect ratio marconi rigged boats, will fall their heads off when you take the way off them. You just have to learn to cope with that and, whenever you can, use it to your advantage.
Backing down at half-a-knot with the wind on the nose, there is simply NO way you can keep the head from falling off, so backing into your slip in the conditions you describe just ain't on :-)
What you DID do is actually pretty much what the doctor orders for such circumstances. You DELIBERATELY come alongside port side to between the long finger dock and the boat that lies a suitable distance downwind from it. Or any other place where you can come alongside with your usual insouciance. Then you WARP you boat into position in its own berth using lines. Lines which, amazingly, are called "warps", and which you are perfectly entitled to expect your bosun to have in readiness :-)
Warping is perfectly respectable, and in days of yore "windbags" (square rigged sailing ships) frequently had to be warped into position in crowded docks after having been tugged in - possibly by their own men doing the towing with the ships cutter, rowing like fury :-)!
I find it useful to remember that there are two forces that are beyond your command and inexorably determine your track over the ground. In tight quarters it's your track over the ground that you are really, really interest in! There is DRIFT — the track over the ground if ONLY the wind were acting on the boat. These is SET — the track over the ground if ONLY the current were acting on the boat. The ACTUAL track over the ground, when no power is applied, will be the vector of those two.
It is your job as skipper - or as conning hossifer - to modify that vector by "making way" (either ahead or astern) so the MODIFIED ACTUAL track "OTG" is exactly what you want it to be to put you in the precise spot OTG where you want to be.
But however slickly you perform that bit of magic, you cannot control the HEADING of a modern cruising boat even while you perform the magic with the TOTG because the head WILL blow off whatever you do with the helm.
You could have come to the mouth of your slip using the above magic, but no way would you have been able to BACK 'er in elegantly. You'd have had to warp!
So while you obviously didn't recognize it at the time — YOU DID THE RIGHT THING :-)!
Cheers!
TrentePieds
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12-08-2022, 07:18
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#18
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Frogmortar Creek, MD
Boat: 1984 Rhodes 22
Posts: 79
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Re: Docking Ego Shattered
Hah, we are an endless source of amusement for the power boaters in our marina, who are always there because they don't want to pay for the gas to go out. We always back in, but a wind on the beam is common and we often have issues, especially early in the season. Note, the place where we are is also a commercial "party" venues, holds work parties, crab feasts etc., so sometimes there is a crowd on land. Three of my "favorites":
1. The time we came in with a good cross-breeze, and had to go around a couple of times before we could sort of line up with the slip, and even then were all over the place (we always put up sturdy slip lines to the outer dolphins so we don't careen into the surrounding slips, but it doesn't look good). They were having a wine tasting on the beach right opposite us, so there was a nice crowd of drunks providing helpful advice.
2. The time we came in and there was a huge crowd of people in the water right opposite our slip, right where we would turn toward shore to back in. Turned out it was a mass baptism. We sure had them saying their prayers when we turned. (We weren't really that close but THEY didn't know we were going to reverse, lol).
3. The time we lost power going out on a nice windy day (Old Faithful, a 1981 Evinrude 9.9 2-stroke, overheated when the intake got clogged with seaweed, and I didn't notice). Wind was on the nose, the creek is narrow there, and it was busy, so we decided to kedge around and sail back. It was windy enough that I only had 1/3 of the main out (roller furling into the mast), and were still making 2-3 knots.
We were just entering the lane to our slip when I remembered - with no motor, no brakes, and no reverse, and there's a hard pier out to the floating dock that parallels the shore dead ahead. Fortunately, the anchor was still ready for deployment, so I called to the Captain, who was in the bow ready to grab the docklines: "Throw out the anchor!" "What??" "THROW OUT THE ANCHOR!!" "Which side?" "AHHH! DOESN'T MATTER!! JUST THROW IT!!!" That stopped us and put the nose back into the wind, a little past our slip; after my heart stopped racing, we were able to crab over to the slip next to ours, and the nearby powerboaters helped us swing her around into our slip. Oy. Oh well, didn't dent anything. Decided it was time for a new outboard.
Here's little Certainty in her slip, with the old outboard, and the Captain deep in thought planning our next adventure.
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12-08-2022, 08:28
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#19
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 41
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Re: Docking Ego Shattered
Hi
I have had many years of docking various boats into marinas. Mostly monohull yachts but some twin engine large motorboats. The best advice I can offer you is that you should begin your reverse manoeuvre before you enter the final slipway so you have gained controlled, reverse momentum ready to turn into your berth when you reach the turning point. To clarify …. Reverse from the main channel into the slipway which contains your berth and continue in reverse so you can line yourself up ready for your final berthing point. Try it and hopefully it will help even on tricky crosswind days.
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12-08-2022, 08:50
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#20
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Currently on the boat, somewhere on the ocean, living the dream
Boat: Morgan 461 S/Y Flying Pig
Posts: 2,298
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Re: Docking Ego Shattered
Aviators have a term which I've had occasion to use more than once:
Go around. They're in the upwind leg, gear down, and somewhere between a few and a few hundred feet off the ground, and decide that it's just not right. Tell the tower, apply full power, and start over.
Every time I've done that, the docking was perfect on the next try.
Going around is prudent, not wimpy.
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12-08-2022, 08:53
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#21
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Peterborough, Ontario
Boat: J/88
Posts: 793
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Re: Docking Ego Shattered
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timlich
Hi
I have had many years of docking various boats into marinas. Mostly monohull yachts but some twin engine large motorboats. The best advice I can offer you is that you should begin your reverse manoeuvre before you enter the final slipway so you have gained controlled, reverse momentum ready to turn into your berth when you reach the turning point. To clarify …. Reverse from the main channel into the slipway which contains your berth and continue in reverse so you can line yourself up ready for your final berthing point. Try it and hopefully it will help even on tricky crosswind days.
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I agree with this assessment even though I normally do not do it because I don't need to in my slip. One caution would be that if the wind is going with you and you drive the stern into the slip the bow will probably swing wider than you want being pushed by the wind so be ready.
__________________
Never attribute to malice what can be explained away by stupidity.
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12-08-2022, 09:55
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#22
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 155
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Re: Docking Ego Shattered
A lot of good advice here. I would add one last bit that, I think, noone has stated. And, yes, it is also said with a _slight_ bit of criticism towards you (and so many other boaters I see).
When you realize your approach is not working, BACK OFF. Don't try to rescue a bad approach. Back off, think about it some, make a new plan, brief all the crew on the new plan, and then try it again, even if it's the same thing, but you're changing your aiming point a little bit. This is a maneuver that is used far too rarely for a whole bag full of reasons.
Too many boats -- and people -- have been bent or broken because of trying to rescue a plan that isn't working out well.
Having said that, there's a saying amongst airplane pilots: A good landing is one you walk away from. A great one means they get to use the airplane again. By that standard, you had a great docking.
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12-08-2022, 10:20
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#23
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Currently on the boat, somewhere on the ocean, living the dream
Boat: Morgan 461 S/Y Flying Pig
Posts: 2,298
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Re: Docking Ego Shattered
Quote:
Originally Posted by CyKlop
clip...
Having said that, there's a saying amongst airplane pilots: A good landing is one you walk away from. A great one means they get to use the airplane again. By that standard, you had a great docking.
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There's one you missed, following my "go around" essay:
A fantastic one means they get to take off as soon as it's refueled
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12-08-2022, 11:12
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#24
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Chicago
Boat: Beneteau Oceanis 41
Posts: 45
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Re: Docking Ego Shattered
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gtstricky
No damage, no one was hurt and I was not embarrassed...
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Sounds like a great docking to me!
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12-08-2022, 11:31
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#25
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Boat: 1982 Irwin 46 Ketch - Reduced Rig & Shoal Draft
Posts: 193
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Re: Docking Ego Shattered
If the wind is too strong. I just pull her strait in. I'll back her in the next time. Its just not worth the risk. My old Morgan maneuvers like a blunt turd in reverse.
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12-08-2022, 12:56
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#26
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: SF Bay Area
Boat: Other people's boats
Posts: 1,104
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Re: Docking Ego Shattered
Agree with the advice to abort and get well clear before the next attempt. When reversing in I too tend to make my pivot early, so that I have good steerage well before making the turn into the slip.
If you don't get well clear you run into the classic parking lot problem on land where someone initially turns too short, so they back up a tiny bit and go forwards again, and keep repeating with no real change in angle. Similarly, if the fairway is 50' wide, there's no points gained for only using 30' of it.
One thing that I think wasn't explicitly called out was not backing with the wind: particularly in strong winds I simply don't bother; it's just asking for something to go wrong (note hpeer's divot experience). If there's space to continue past and reverse into the wind I may try that instead.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gtstricky
Today we went out with a little stronger wind and some friends. Came back in with 14 knots blowing right Into the slip. Our normal method for our right turn to back in wasn’t working. Finally as we were getting more into a jam we opted to swing to go nose in. I tried to use prop walk to swing the nose tightly and while it worked the wind caught us and pushed us just passed our slip and tight up to the side dock. It is hard to describe but we were safe but placed between a boat in front and the docks behind us. We needed the bow to push off and get pointed into the slip just next to the boat in front of us. It was so tight that we could spring more than a few feet.
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With the wind blowing as it was, I would have just went bow in from the start (and if, as the fallback option, done the pivot at least over by slip 52 if not further out).
From alongside the dock, I think the best spot for a spring would have been from your starboard stern or midships cleat to the jutting-out part of the dock by your starboard quarter.
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12-08-2022, 13:05
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#27
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Southampton UK
Boat: Hanse 470e
Posts: 11
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Re: Docking Ego Shattered
I would recommend stern in to that slip, from a long way out. If it's windy then you need more speed up until you rotate the boat around it's keel, to turn the stern into the slip. As soon as you are aligned, slow right down (it will all happen in seconds). I would have someone get off at the slip end, with a midline and instruct them to get that onto the nearest pontoon cleat asap.Once that is on (and it must happen, there's no room for error), you are safe - you can use engine, gears and tiller to align the boat to be parallel.
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12-08-2022, 16:53
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#28
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Mount Dandenong Vic Australia
Boat: S&S Defiance 30 ft.
Posts: 40
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Re: Docking Ego Shattered
Further to the aviation analogy - Any landing you walk away from is a good one.
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