Verrrrry Interestingggg . . .

[DeepFrz]

Here folks, it goes well with crude...

http://www.ted.com/talks/jeremy_jackson.html

[DeepFrz]

Wow, I'm very surprised. Not one comment from an upscale, nature loving crowd such as this. I would think this presentation would spark outrage.

[fishwife]

I rather think that, like me, many people will feel helpless in the face of big business. We are talking hundreds of thousands of jobs that will need to go, to make a difference on fish stocks. Who wants to return to an agrarian society? Who wants to give up their SUV or flying off on a vacation? A crash will come, of that I think there is little doubt. People less fortunate will starve, particularly those who survive on food from the sea. For a while we in the western world will be immune but I don't believe that will last.

P.

[Christian Van H]

Originally Posted by DeepFrz

Not one comment from an upscale, nature loving crowd such as this.

OK DeepFrz, I'll comment. Listen, I have been observing this for 30 years in the Florida Keys. Personally, I'm sure there is a mass kill-off, and I dont think we will see recovery in our lifetimes. There are several members on this forum that truly believe that Earth was created for humans, and that all life on Earth is here for us to hold dominion over. There have been terrible arguments here where members have stated that there is NOTHING Man can do to the environment that Nature cannot handle. I understand their point of view, and I'm in total agreement. Only difference between my own belief and their's is that I believe that the way Nature will recover is to eliminate us all. The environment can be a touchy subject around here... Thanks for posting that link, Chris

[idpnd]

I'm with fishwife on this one. (Us) people of the industrialised world are far too stupid and decadent to put the brakes on. The worst bit is: Everybody know what's going on.

Except our evolution/warming denying, Kansas-educated friends of course. Where are the global warming deniers?

[osirissail]

There is always that blame it on big business syndrome. Fact is big business cannot exist without customers - you and me and 7 billion others. I have seen the wholesale reductions on fish stocks in the Atlantic and Caribbean over my almost 70 years. I have seen fisheries collapse first hand due to cheap and fast ravaging of the ocean floor by individual fishermen intent of getting the most money for the least work, not big business. Those fisheries are now gone and the fishermen have found other work.
- - In places without big business like little Caribbean Islands, we snorkel the shoreline reefs and are amazed one week with the clouds of baby fish and then watch them subsequently grow in to "teenage" fish. Then they disappear and we notice the fishing panda tied to the wharfs with the conch shell being blown as locals buy up these "fingerlings" dozens at a time to fry and eat. Classic human hunger combined with population growth - all totally natural conditions - have stripped the fish stocks before they get a chance to grow up and make more fish and then mature enough to present a fish that a whole family can eat.
- - So who is responsible - everybody on the planet, not the big businesses who only respond to what their customers are clamoring for.
- - Can anything be done - No! Unless somebody is willing to exterminate a major portion of the human population on the planet. This is all very natural and elephants, herds of beef animals, etc. will all do the exact same thing if not interfered with by Mother Nature or Man.
- - I spent a lot of time in the Mediterranean Sea and you can witness first hand the collapsed fisheries, water so salty it is like syrup, and people etching out a living on islands denuded of trees over thousands of years. A fabulous example of what happens when you "break the food chain" at the bottom as Capt Cousteau showed in films and such decades ago.
- - Maybe we humans shouldn't worry about being taken out by an asteroid like the dinosaurs - we are going to "eat ourselves into extinction."

[Christian Van H]

Originally Posted by idpnd

Where are the global warming deniers?

They are here, my friend, and you REALLY dont want to hear from them...

[Intentional Drifter]

I'm sorry, DeepFrz, I did view it. TED is one of my favorite sites. Like just about all TED presentations, it was excellent, informative, etc.

It was also so darn depressing that I think I just reacted with one of our primal defense mechanisms -- denial.

If Dr. Jackson is right -- and I certainly have no reason to doubt him, after all he is one of the foremost oceanographers of our time -- then we are in so much deep doo-doo that it just makes me want to reach for the tequila.

ID

[flysci]

That's the us he said we must change - the selfish us that cares only about our own convenience and pleasure. What happened to sacrifice for the common good?

You're right, though, that it's overwhelming - I was stunned by the end of the video. He has a real talent for helping you see the big picture.

I think, first, we could all atop eating commercially caught fish. We no longer eat wild animals, 'cause we'd rather have them out there IN the wild. It's time to stop eating wild fish.

Margo

[Christian Van H]

Originally Posted by osirissail

- - Can anything be done - No! Unless somebody is willing to exterminate a major portion of the human population on the planet.

No need for that extreme Osirissail! You are nothing if not outspoken though... Cousteau had it right years ago when he preached on population growth. There is no need to exterminate... Humans die off all by themselves. All we need is a global birth control initiative. We do it with atomic weapons, we are attempting to do something with Carbon, when will our leaders grow a set and attack the REAL root of this problem?

[tager]

Bill Gates has it covered. He has a theory that mass charitable distribution of vaccines makes 3rd world parents less likely to have a lot of kids, because they will be more confident that their children will live through common diseases to take care of them later in life.

I think that is a red herring. I think pumping people full of vaccines kills them slowly. The more you give away for free. The less human-years there will be on the planet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WQtRI7A064

[flysci]

Originally Posted by tager

I think pumping people full of vaccines kills them slowly. The more you give away for free. The less human-years there will be on the planet.

Huh?! Vaccines save lives! There's no scientific support for that statement of yours, Tager.

I'll agree though, that relying on vaccines to lower the birth rate around the world is risky. Women need to be educated, and have easily available birth control, There is pretty sound statistical evidence that then they will voluntarily have fewer children.

And fewer people means less polution, less environmental destruction and less CO2.

Margo

[Christian Van H]

Originally Posted by tager

I think pumping people full of vaccines kills them slowly. The more you give away for free. The less human-years there will be on the planet.

Somehow life expectancy stats dont quite follow you... I dont follow you either. Did you miss the word "Healthcare" in Bill's speech? This forum prevents me from posting what I truly feel about what you are getting at. I am sad for you.

[Intentional Drifter]

There's no doubt that better education, better health care, and yes, immunizations, actually leads to a lower birth rate, because child survival is higher. Look up Hans Rosling, also on TED. You will also see one of the slickest presentations of complex data I've ever seen.

ID

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by idpnd

Where are the global warming deniers?

Here

Before this thread gets zapped

I will only start taking the "science" seriously when any Govt starts the large scale building of sea defences 12 foot / metres / miles high. and start reducing populations - forcibly (above what we do already in the ME and Africa, spreading peace and prosperity ).

It's the dog that doesn't bark.............