Vendee Globe Starts Today, Facts, Video, Discussion

[Pelagic]

I agree Polux.
If there is such a real thing as "luck"
(which is not just a superstitious bow to the Gods)....
Then the winners tend to make their own!

[250224]

Originally Posted by Polux

... This race is not only about sailing but about endurance and about the capacity to overcome and solve problems on the sailing boats ...

Very well said. Especially endurance! If one imagines that they sail non stop, day in, night out in such conditions with such high speed. It's just unbelievable.

[JPA Cate]

Well, with respect, Polux, I think the UFO collisions are not a "controllable hazard." That avoiding them would come under the 'absence of bad luck" heading. I think the men all simply accept that as a factor, a danger, whether animal or other, from which they may control the outcome. Ruyant's delivery of his broken vessel to Bluff was an amazing bit of fortitude under extreme duress. Many "chapeaux" to him.

I generally agree with the thrust of your argument, that these particular top sailors, have to be able to do everything, it's not only sailing ability, but also routing ability, fatigue management, and the ability to take what you've got on board and fix the rascally boat when it breaks, and nurse it to landfall. The guys who are a quarter of the world behind have not yet learned what the front runners have had to, in order to get the top boats. Having a top boat is a real advantage. I learned long ago, in the days of the BOC, that the better funded vessels always have a huge advantage.

Ann

[Polux]

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate

... The guys who are a quarter of the world behind have not yet learned what the front runners have had to, in order to get the top boats. Having a top boat is a real advantage. I learned long ago, in the days of the BOC, that the better funded vessels always have a huge advantage.

As I have said one of the sailors on the tail of the race has a top new boat, only similar in performance to the two that are leading the race. A real shame in my opinion, since that boat in expert hands could be on the head of the race.

Several of the semi-amateurs, that are racing on the middle pack, had better boats and higher budgets than the one that Thomas Ruyant had and he was sailing several thousands of miles ahead.

Even top professional solo sailors know that there is an age where they cannot be competitive at high level anymore and retire to give way to new talented younger sailors and I can tell you that happens before one having 60 year of age even if this kind of racing allows for the experience to put the "retirement" age at a much higher threshold than most of other forms of racing.

Saying all this yes, some luck is always needed not only in what regards maintaining the boat in one piece, being hit due to shock hazard, different types of breakage or even rough waves and sea conditions. That does not mean that from the beginning the ones that had a real chance of winning were about half a dozen and that has not only about the boat but about the boat and the skipper.

What the ones that are in front have had to do to get the best boats was simple and dificult at the same time: to be one of the best. Sponsors are not interesting in sponsoring with a new boat a sailor that has not chances of winning and that means they will search the best they can find.

Not different in any other form of top racing with machines.

[transmitterdan]

I did not mean that these men are foolish or that some are ahead through nothing more than dumb luck (or lack of bad luck). Clearly these men are at the top of the ladder in their sport. I am just pointing out that in my opinion a sailing race should be an event that mostly rewards good seamanship, routing skill and boat performance. It should be less about physical endurance and lack of bad luck. The race rules could make it more of a sailing competition and less of "who can stay alert the longest". A sporting event that can only be won by taking out of proportion risk to life and limb is to be questioned. It has been a long time since the days of the Roman Gladiator for good reason.

For example, in the US they are learning that US football players are much more likely to die an early death due to brain damage suffered years earlier during games. To me this takes away a huge element of the joy in being a football fan. Likewise, sailing races that require outsize risks to win are not nearly as enjoyable to me. Maybe that's just a personal issue and I should shut up.

One thing we can point to is the number of times these boats have saved their overly tired crew. The reports of capsize, knock downs and the like where the design and build of the boat was the major factor in recovering are amazing. I hope we learn more about the features and design details that seem to be improving over previous years boats. It used to be several boats were sunk in this type race. I have not heard of one in this race so far (knock on wood).

[Pelagic]

A random event such as colliding with a UFO is not a measurable issue in this sport

However, mast and rigging failures, structural damages due to heavy weather, are all a function of the design team and sailors risk management and routing choices.

Obviously the leaders push that risk envelope the most, but their stamina, experience, awareness and proactive maintenance is what makes the human difference in a competition such as this.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by transmitterdan

I did not mean that these men are foolish or that some are ahead through nothing more than dumb luck (or lack of bad luck). Clearly these men are at the top of the ladder in their sport. I am just pointing out that in my opinion a sailing race should be an event that mostly rewards good seamanship, routing skill and boat performance. It should be less about physical endurance and lack of bad luck. The race rules could make it more of a sailing competition and less of "who can stay alert the longest". A sporting event that can only be won by taking out of proportion risk to life and limb is to be questioned. It has been a long time since the days of the Roman Gladiator for good reason.
...
One thing we can point to is the number of times these boats have saved their overly tired crew. The reports of capsize, knock downs and the like where the design and build of the boat was the major factor in recovering are amazing. I hope we learn more about the features and design details that seem to be improving over previous years boats. It used to be several boats were sunk in this type race. I have not heard of one in this race so far (knock on wood).

Not only in this race but since almost 10 decades ago when several capsized. Since then NA and sailors worked together to make safer boats and what they have managed is outstanding. Much of that work was due to one of the great NA of the XX century, Finot.

Yes I understand what you mean and I agree. This race is not only a race but an adventure, if you want the Dakar of the seas. They have many other races including transats that don't have this level of physical demand even if solo sailing is always a demanding sport.

As you have noticed, with the exception of Alex Thompson, all the top sailors on this race are French and the French national title for solo champion is not disputed on these boats, but with Figaro class boats, with equal boats. Some pages back I made a post about them.

Many of these top sailors have been one or more than one time French solo champions, but the Vendee globe is another thing and you are right, it is not only a sail race, it is much more than that and I bet that any of them would gladly exchange a title of French solo champion for a victory on the Vendee Globe.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

...

Obviously the leaders push that risk envelope the most, but their stamina, experience, awareness and proactive maintenance is what makes the human difference in a competition such as this.

You know, till the last edition I would have agreed completely with you. Till then was unthinkable that a not very experienced sailor could win this race and then it appeared François Gabart, a rookie on the race and he dominated everybody.

The only one that could maintain the pace was Armel but clearly he was much more stressed than Gabart and when Gabart accelerated after turning the Horn everybody included Armel understood that nobody could beat him.

Call it talent or something else. On some occasions top performers seem to enter on a special dimension and are unbeatable. I have seen that on F1 drivers, on Dakar riders, WRC racers even in football players.

For the ones that did not followed that edition:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgJDNHlYaTU

Note that François Gabart was one of the youngest racers, the French call him the Kid, and a rookie on the Vendee Globe but had already won the French offshore solo sail championship in 2010 and in 2011 won is first Transat on an Imoca. Even so very few thought that he could win the Vendee.

[Pelagic]

Polux, I think we still agree.

I do not just measure "experience" by years, but more so by challenges and tests in their lives that have prepared them to succeed and trust their instincts.

Those events may even have nothing to do with sailing.

[Polux]

Today it seems to be a good day for everyone with no storms for nobody.

That will not be like that for long. Tomorrow the last group will be caught by the one I mentioned some days ago an even if they all sailed North to avoid the worst of it, they still will be sailing on bad weather.

On the front Armel and Alex will have an easy passage on the Horn but I am not so sure about the ones that follow them. Maybe Jeremie Beyou will pass but probably Le Cam and Yann Elies will have a big depression blocking all the way to the storm. They will have to cross it.

Further back it is possible that Nandor Fa and Conrad Colman will not be able to escape to another big one.

Regarding the race Armel went again away from Alex, that is know about 600nm from the leader and Beyou won 55nm over Alex that. He is now at 850nm from Alex.

Regarding Thomas Ruyant and his magnifique exploit to bring the boat to safety, his sponsors decided to envoy him a big thanks as well as to the NZ guys that give him a big help.

Remember that he was a very funny Sponsor, a federation of people and small businessman that are supporting him for Imagine, an obvious reference to John Lennon song. I posted about it here:
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ml#post2283041

Don't miss the "Thanks" video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfuI9uAsdMA

and I bet that his group of supporters and supporters of the imagine project will be growing in number fast. A nice bunch. Maybe they grow so much that they be able to provide him a new and more competitive boat.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_YXSHkAahE

[Polux]

and on that attempt to beat the circumnavigation absolut solo sail record Thomas Coville is going to make it (I hope!!!) and by a huge margin. He has 6 days!!!!!!! advantage over the previous record at only 2000nm from the finish. Great sailing, taming that huge sail racer and going very fast.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUJxHeGGjeY

Tableau de bord - Sodebo - Tour Du Monde 2016

I guess that are three sailors that are particularly attentive to that, the still actual record holder, Francis Join, that is also at sea trying to beat the absolut sail record (with crew), the one that is leading the Vendee (Armel) and the last winner, François Gabart.

[Pelagic]

Thanks Polux, I am just amazed at the noise factor of these yachts at speed (including Vendee)

I wonder if there has been hearing tests done before and after?

[Polux]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

Thanks Polux, I am just amazed at the noise factor of these yachts at speed (including Vendee)

I wonder if there has been hearing tests done before and after?

Carbon boats are particularly noisy at speed but i have heard no complaints....except this year. It seems that the high pitched noise of the foils at speed is really too much. Something has to be made about that, don't know really what.

That is connected with the evolution of this boats that is quite amazing.

We have to go back to the 2004 to find a boat that was not new winning this race (not new but modified). Since then it is always a new boat that wins the Vendee and the diference in time for the previous edition is a mark regarding that evolution.

Since 1996, every edition is faster than the previous one. Difficult to find or even impossible ti find in any sail race such regularity regarding improving performance, no matter the particular conditions, year after year.

This show also how the evolution of these boats have been a constant. probably they are among the race boats whose evolution has been more constant and fast. We can see by comparison the VOR 65 being slower than the VOR70, after that tragic mistake (regarding boat evolution) to make them a class boat and not even attributing their design to the one that had made the fastest VOR boats.

The diference in time from edition to edition is very meaningfull:

1996: 105 days
2000: - 12 days
2004: - 6 days
2008: - 3 days
2012: - 6 days

This year at the Horn Armel has an advantage of 5 days over the winner of last year edition.

If we consider those 5 days, in 21 years of boat evolution the time was improved in 32 days, meaning an improvement of 30% over the 1996 time. That is awesome and it represents an average improvement of the speed potential of boat from edition to edition of over 7%

If we do not take into consideration the big diference from the 1996 to the 2000 edition, even so the improvement of the speed potential on the last 5 editions is of almost 6% for edition.

[Polux]

Regarding the race, Armel continues to win steadily time over Alex, that is now at 760 nm, and he is about to pass the horn. Armel has now about a 2 days advantage over Alex.

The 3rd, Beyou, was penalized in 2 hours for accidentally braking the lead seal of the transmission. He had already done the penalty and managed to do that without losing much to Alex. He is now at 858nm from Alex.

On the tail of the race Didac Costa is the one taking more risks with that big depression, the one that went less North, meaning that he is in attack mode and if he manages to pass it without breakage he would overtake one more competitor, this time Pieter Heerema on his new and very fast boat.

I hope nothing is wrong with Heerema. He is going very slowly on the last 4 hours. I hope he is only sailing defensively regarding that storm.

The next one ahead of Costa is at 1100nm and even if he seems faster it would be hard to recover all that till the end of the race. Anyway great race for Costa, the one that left 4 days after all the others.

[Bleemus]

Having spent thousands of miles racing in 70 foot carbon boats I can confirm it is like being inside a bongo drum at Burning Man.