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Old 21-10-2021, 16:45   #76
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Re: Two people dead after sailboat capsized

Not to disagree with any of the above BUT

In this incident…

It appears neither the main sheet or traveller failed. They can be seen in the photos.

The speculation is that the boat STRUCTURE holding the traveller failed. In short the energy transmitted through the boom into the traveller then into the dodger roof. And then something in the dodger structure failed. Could have been the roof to side connection or the connection from the sides to the deck. Don’t know, can’t tell.

Very few boats would be subject to this kind of failure. Sure the traveller or main sheet can fail, but I don’t think I have heard of a traveller ripping a hunk out of the deck.
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Old 21-10-2021, 17:46   #77
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Re: Two people dead after sailboat capsized

Looking at the picture blown up, I see two things...
1) Is it possible that it was not a dodger but the cabin top had been modified to make the boat a Pilothouse boat. To me, the way the open cabin top looks seems too surgically remove to have been just ripped off.
2) If it was a dodger attached to the cabin top and it was extremely heavily constructed (say 1/2" ply with multiple layers of epoxy glass) and the factory cabin top polyester resin/glass sandwich, then the dodger would not be the first thing to fail. Being that the traveler is bolted every few inches into the dodger and a fender washer backing, then it is quite possible that a possible jib in high winds and/or a breaking wave could cantilever the whole shebang off.
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Old 21-10-2021, 19:11   #78
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Re: Two people dead after sailboat capsized

^ Yes, I was using the term “Dodger” loosely. What I recall looking at the photos it seemed as though the whole saloon had been exposed.

Either way I believe it likely they lost the ability to steer because of the loose debris lashing about. Which might also explain no May Day call. The radio may have been destroyed early on.

Frankly it is a nightmare scenario.
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Old 22-10-2021, 03:45   #79
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Re: Two people dead after sailboat capsized

Quote:
Originally Posted by hpeer View Post
Not to disagree with any of the above BUT

In this incident…

It appears neither the main sheet or traveller failed. They can be seen in the photos.

The speculation is that the boat STRUCTURE holding the traveller failed. In short the energy transmitted through the boom into the traveller then into the dodger roof. And then something in the dodger structure failed. Could have been the roof to side connection or the connection from the sides to the deck. Don’t know, can’t tell.

Very few boats would be subject to this kind of failure. Sure the traveller or main sheet can fail, but I don’t think I have heard of a traveller ripping a hunk out of the deck.


From what we can see I think you’re right. But even if it was just the boom out of control rather than the the apparent nightmare they experienced with the boom with traveler and part of the dodger flailing around, it’s still a pretty frightening thought.

During our first season with our present boat, while sailing in light winds with me at the helm, my novice sailor wife pointed behind me at the shackle that attaches one of the blocks my main sheet runs through and said “it looks like that little pin is going to fall out.” I turned around sure enough, the shackle pin had come unscrewed and was at about a 30degree angle from what it should have been and if the winds had been above about 5 knots would have undoubtedly let go. So now I use a small zip tie to mouse shackles like this that are visible and since then have noticed many other boats I’ve been on use un-moused shackles. I use wire to mouse shackles in places that aren’t easily accessible such as at the top of the mast on the furler or to attach anchor ride, but usually use a small zip tie on shackles I can easily see and have to be removed yearly during storage just because it’s easier than using wire. But I guess the overall point is to constantly be inspecting our rigging looking for any possible failure points because any rigging failure can quickly cause injury or further damage to the boat.
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Old 22-10-2021, 09:20   #80
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Re: Two people dead after sailboat capsized

Please forgive during this somber discussion, but just a point of information here since the subject came up. Mousing is the closing off of the open part of a hook to keep whatever it is lifting in the belly of the hook, etc. To keep the hook from unhooking. Typically this is done using marlin or tarred twine. It's a subject covered in "Marlinspike Seamanship" courses.

Seizing is what one does to shackle pins. Normally a piece of SS seizing wire is threaded through the eye of the pin and around the shoulder of the shackle-- typically an anchor shackle--and twisted to close. Rather like a cotter pin in purpose. Flush-pin shackles are sometimes seized using Blue Loctite. Yes, folks also use zip-ties to sieze shackles as you note, but those ties deteriorate in sun as we know. Folks have recommended the black ones if left in the sun. But the SS wire is more or less permanent and is usually removed by snipping with diagonal pliers. But my main point here is to distinguish between mousing and seizing.
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Old 22-10-2021, 20:23   #81
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Re: Two people dead after sailboat capsized

Image result for mousing a shackle
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Mouse or Mousing (screw pin shackle) is a secondary securement method used to secure screw pin from rotation or loosening. Annealed iron wire is looped through hole in collar of pin and around adjacent leg of shackle body with wire ends securely twisted together.

Not that I think the term used is critical to anyone’s safety but I’ve always heard the term “mousing” used to describe securing the shackles pin so it can’t accidentally come on screwed.
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