Three Sailors Rescued by USCG off Oregon

[svHyLyte]

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate

Can anyone say what that is hanging from the bow of the boat?

Does the boom look broken to you guys?

Was the steering hydraulic?

Seems none of them had the skills to rescue themselves....poor guys.

Ann

No ability or willingness to figure out a jury rig to get home with? Poor guys? Nah... Dumb, lazy ignorant... Take your pick. They shouldn't have been out there IMHO.

[Steadman Uhlich]

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate

Can anyone say what that is hanging from the bow of the boat?

Does the boom look broken to you guys?

Was the steering hydraulic?

Seems none of them had the skills to rescue themselves....poor guys.

Ann

Ann,

The article says the boom was broken. My guess is it was the gooseneck.
I looked at the photo as large as I could, and still could not identify the dark object in the water below the bow.

I posted this excerpt because I had recently seen a post by a new sailor who posted about buying a small boat on which to travel down the coast from Seattle to South America. Many members wisely cautioned that sailor because of the risks of that stretch of coast.

This is not the first account I have read of sailboats dismasted or disabled and requiring USCG rescue off that part of the coast. I wish I had links to the other stories, some were very similar situations.

[BigNickMontana]

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate

Seems none of them had the skills to rescue themselves....poor guys.

Ann

My chief's words at boot camp still ringing in my ears "When you fail to plan you plan to fail"

I wonder if they got caught with too much canvas up?

[model 10]

Originally Posted by svHyLyte

No ability or willingness to figure out a jury rig to get home with? Poor guys? Nah... Dumb, lazy ignorant... Take your pick. They shouldn't have been out there IMHO.

I don't know about those guys but I talked to the CO at station Crescent City Ca. and he has had to rescue boats that lost just their mainsail.

[BigNickMontana]

To my eyes it looks like the remnants of the Jib hanging off of the front of the boat all twisted and knotted up.

[cards26]

They deployed a sea anchor, so it could be remnants of that.

[JPA Cate]

Okay, it's easy to judge, and I have some of those feelings, too, and yet....

All we have to use to try and figure out how it happened is via the media, who often don't get the story right, or complete if they ever do. So, inadequate evidence to convict.

The picture shows a dark blue object in some disarray, hanging down from the anchoring sprit. Big Nick may be right, it may be the remains of a sail, but it is not a common color or set of colors for a headsail.... that's not evidence.

Steady Hand probably has the right of it, a broken gooseneck, possibly suw wear and tear, possibly an unprevented gybe.

The blown out headsail may have been caused by a failure in the furler mechanism. Even good quality, new sails can quickly flog themselves to death, it's really upsetting to watch. When it happened to us, due to our failure to understand what was happening with our detachable inner forestay in time, the sail was history within only a few moments--all we saved was the sheets. The foil was ruined, as well. So, I think that not only do we not know the sequence of events, but that the "planning to fail", while useful as a training concept, does not cover enough of the possibilities inherent in the situation.

They did strike the mainsail after the boom-related failure. Water was on the outside of the boat.

Something else we do not know is what part(s) of the steering failed. Some bits are difficult to access. It isn't too hard to imagine them, sailing downwind, and they get rolled down by a bigger wave, causing the rudder to shear off. Who or whatever's steering then tries to steer unsuccessfull, and raises the alarm. The boat rounds up, and the mainsail flogs. if it rounded up suddenly on the opposite tack, then they were lucky the gooseneck broke, and not the boom (booms are $$$).

Now, they are disabled, and with low batteries? Why? Equipment failure? Inexperience? Who knows?

Did the crew agitate to be rescued? They did outnumber the skipper?

Did none of them have McGyvering experience?

Anyhow, I would really like to hear from the ones involved what happened, and in what sequence. I wonder if they had a staysail they could fly? what that is hanging off the bow and its purpose? had they attempted to create some kind of sea anchor? They were out there 3 days, they had time to try a lot of stuff, and we have no knowledge of what and how they tried.

Let the one who has never had a mishap at sea be the one to be judgmental, it won't be me. We've had a lack of thinking through come back to bite us years after the error in thought occurred, and we, at least try, to question our own thinking, and honestly, I find it quite hard. Much easier to see after the fact. These people have been through a harrowing experience, and sometimes we lack the necessary skills, or sometimes the materials to even jury rig. Preparations stop somewhere. Few vessels carry jury rudders other than racers. Few sailors even have practiced with their emergency tillers, mostly wheel steering anyhow on a boat of this one's size. So what failed is really a big part of this story--and we don't know.

And that's why I said, "poor guys", because I know how scary a series of failures can be, and how demoralizing a major breakage can be, well offshore.

Ann (with apologies for such a lengthy rebuttal)

[Terra Nova]

Originally Posted by gjordan

No spare sails at all on board? No emergency tiller? No hand held VHF? Makes you wonder. ____Grant.

No way to heat food, no dinghy(?)

[JPA Cate]

"left them with a fouled prop and no steerage" .... and possibly not able to clear the fouling, cables from adrift buoys or crab pots can do that, to the point where the boat must be hauled to repair.

There are rude terms for this kind of cascade of destructive events; the ones i know all have the "f" word in them....

[Don C L]

By the SOUND of it, they did not SEEM well prepared. However I have heard of well-found boats and experienced skippers see things go south in a cascade in a hurry at times; there was a post not too long ago here from a gentleman who lost his boat not far from that area (he was selling his Fatty Knees as I recall). God knows I have seen things get a little out of hand at times in bad weather! I have to say my first reaction is "ugh, that stretch of coast," and secondly, "sheesh, I have more back-up equipment in my rinky-dink little boat!" It does seem that the boat took good care of them though.
After looking at the photos posted on the news report you can see the boom broke at the vang fitting. Looks like they had trouble furling the headsail and it got away from them. They were clearly slammed pretty hard. And 50 feet is a big boat in those conditions for three folks, maybe it snuck up at night and they weren't able to get the main down before things went bad. All conjecture.

[BigNickMontana]

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate

Okay, it's easy to judge, and I have some of those feelings, too, and yet....

All we have to use to try and figure out how it happened is via the media, who often don't get the story right, or complete if they ever do. So, inadequate evidence to convict.

The picture shows a dark blue object in some disarray, hanging down from the anchoring sprit. Big Nick may be right, it may be the remains of a sail, but it is not a common color or set of colors for a headsail.... that's not evidence.

Steady Hand probably has the right of it, a broken gooseneck, possibly suw wear and tear, possibly an unprevented gybe.

The blown out headsail may have been caused by a failure in the furler mechanism. Even good quality, new sails can quickly flog themselves to death, it's really upsetting to watch. When it happened to us, due to our failure to understand what was happening with our detachable inner forestay in time, the sail was history within only a few moments--all we saved was the sheets. The foil was ruined, as well. So, I think that not only do we not know the sequence of events, but that the "planning to fail", while useful as a training concept, does not cover enough of the possibilities inherent in the situation.

They did strike the mainsail after the boom-related failure. Water was on the outside of the boat.

Something else we do not know is what part(s) of the steering failed. Some bits are difficult to access. It isn't too hard to imagine them, sailing downwind, and they get rolled down by a bigger wave, causing the rudder to shear off. Who or whatever's steering then tries to steer unsuccessfull, and raises the alarm. The boat rounds up, and the mainsail flogs. if it rounded up suddenly on the opposite tack, then they were lucky the gooseneck broke, and not the boom (booms are $$$).

Now, they are disabled, and with low batteries? Why? Equipment failure? Inexperience? Who knows?

Did the crew agitate to be rescued? They did outnumber the skipper?

Did none of them have McGyvering experience?

Anyhow, I would really like to hear from the ones involved what happened, and in what sequence. I wonder if they had a staysail they could fly? what that is hanging off the bow and its purpose? had they attempted to create some kind of sea anchor? They were out there 3 days, they had time to try a lot of stuff, and we have no knowledge of what and how they tried.

Let the one who has never had a mishap at sea be the one to be judgmental, it won't be me. We've had a lack of thinking through come back to bite us years after the error in thought occurred, and we, at least try, to question our own thinking, and honestly, I find it quite hard. Much easier to see after the fact. These people have been through a harrowing experience, and sometimes we lack the necessary skills, or sometimes the materials to even jury rig. Preparations stop somewhere. Few vessels carry jury rudders other than racers. Few sailors even have practiced with their emergency tillers, mostly wheel steering anyhow on a boat of this one's size. So what failed is really a big part of this story--and we don't know.

And that's why I said, "poor guys", because I know how scary a series of failures can be, and how demoralizing a major breakage can be, well offshore.

Ann (with apologies for such a lengthy rebuttal)

I suspect the blue color is from the sun cover sewn around the edge of the sail.

You are right that it is hard to tell why they lost steerage, there are a long list of reasons why that could have been.

To have so many failures in a row though boggles my mind. Especially the engine failing considering they were under sail when all of this went down. I am wondering if in a panic they kept trying to start the motor until the battery went dead instead of finding out why it was not getting fuel?

I am sure there are a lot of lessons to be learned here.

The greatest of which I think is knowing your equipment and thoroughly shaking it down before setting out on a long distance cruise.

[BigNickMontana]

Originally Posted by Don C L

By the SOUND of it, they did not SEEM well prepared. However I have heard of well-found boats and experienced skippers see things go south in a cascade in a hurry at times; there was a post not too long ago here from a gentleman who lost his boat not far from that area (he was selling his Fatty Knees as I recall). God knows I have seen things get a little out of hand at times in bad weather! I have to say my first reaction is "ugh, that stretch of coast," and secondly, "sheesh, I have more back-up equipment in my rinky-dink little boat!" It does seem that the boat took good care of them though.
After looking at the photos posted on the news report you can see the boom broke at the vang fitting. Looks like they had trouble furling the headsail and it got away from them. They were clearly slammed pretty hard. And 50 feet is a big boat in those conditions for three folks, maybe it snuck up at night and they weren't able to get the main down before things went bad. All conjecture.

He said right in the news report that they lost steering and because of it could not reef the main.

[JPA Cate]

We have broken the boom, once. It, too, broke at the vang, and was caused by a sudden burst of wind from the other side of the boat. It was prevented, and not in the way estarzinger recommends, and it happened in sheltered waters, no large seas to contend with.

On our boat, we have to come up to reef, as well, so that part's easy for me to accept, and again, i freely admit that's not the ideal situation, either. All boats are compromises.

Ann

[Don C L]

Ah, the steering loss. That reminds me, I met a guy two years ago who sailed his big fairly new Catalina, can't recall the size, down to Marina Del Rey from SF. All beautiful he said, no problems, all the way down, until he was checking something else and happened to see the cable on the steering quadrant had chafed nearly completely through. He had no idea, he had just bought the boat, it all seemed to be in great shape. I guess a check of the quadrant wasn't in the survey.
Sometimes it is hard to know what all the lessons are to learn. I don't know if you can have a boat or equipment that is ready for anything. I think experience, especially with lots of mistakes, is very helpful to have in your emergency kit.

[gjordan]

I just looked at the TV report and they show that the boat clearly has an inner forestay so it should have been easy to hoist a staysail. That and an emergency tiller would have gotten them going again. Just speculation on my part. ____Grant.