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Old 19-04-2019, 09:23   #91
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Re: Sustainable Sailing

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here we go
I am not trying to start and environmental fight, let us be realistic about it.
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Old 19-04-2019, 09:28   #92
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Re: Sustainable Sailing

Let’s not go down the climate change rat hole.
Topic is sustainable sailing.
I maintain that “cruising” as most do it, is low impact.

As far as not being wasteful as being frugal, I agree.
Last car we bought was a Prius, not to save the world, but we drove a ridiculous number of miles, and a Prius is the cheapest auto at the time to drive, and among the cheapest to maintain.
We saved money wise, more than the car cost, and the daughter has it in College now.
So budget wise, being sustainable, can be an effective way to lower costs.
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Old 19-04-2019, 09:42   #93
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Re: Sustainable Sailing

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I understand, and agree.
It’s what bothers me when I see the climate change protesters with their bottled water, get into the SUV and drive off, it’s what bothers me about Al Gore, he is to me the same as a Televangelist.
Both have a hidden agenda I believe.

Cruisers, most often cruise in plastic boats, true, but our environmental impact when compared to the average SUV, PickUp driving person living in a McMansion is extremely small, almost non existent.
All the Hollywood stars crying about Global Warming as they climb into their personal jet to fly down to the Cayman’s, can you spell hypocrite?

Now I didn’t begin cruising as a way to save the Earth, but you have to admit on average, our impact is relatively small.

The answer seems obvious to me, reduce consumption, consumption of everything as whatever it is, fuel was burned to manufacturer, or transport it.
A64.

Yeah, don’t let the hypocrites get you down. What we need to do is look beyond all the partisan baloney to where the truth lies.

Happiness is not dieting with the most toys, it’s living a feee life. Freedom from credit card debts and being a wage slave. Reduce, Reuse, Recycle should be our mantra. It would really mess with the elites and totally change the economy back to something much more reasonable. It would do a lot more good besides for things like climate change and pollution.
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Old 19-04-2019, 10:06   #94
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Re: Sustainable Sailing

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Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
Let’s not go down the climate change rat hole.
Topic is sustainable sailing.
I maintain that “cruising” as most do it, is low impact.

As far as not being wasteful as being frugal, I agree.
Last car we bought was a Prius, not to save the world, but we drove a ridiculous number of miles, and a Prius is the cheapest auto at the time to drive, and among the cheapest to maintain.
We saved money wise, more than the car cost, and the daughter has it in College now.
So budget wise, being sustainable, can be an effective way to lower costs.
Not to be argumentative but what is sustainable? I use what I need when I need it, I go where I want when I want. I use diesel to run my genset and my engines, to make fresh water and solar cells to charge my batteries. I either use the marina's holding tank discharge or sail 50 miles off shore to dump my tank if no shore dump is available. I just purchased a new laptop because I wanted one.

What is sustainable living?
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Old 19-04-2019, 10:08   #95
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Re: Sustainable Sailing

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A64.

Yeah, don’t let the hypocrites get you down. What we need to do is look beyond all the partisan baloney to where the truth lies.

Happiness is not dieting with the most toys, it’s living a feee life. Freedom from credit card debts and being a wage slave. Reduce, Reuse, Recycle should be our mantra. It would really mess with the elites and totally change the economy back to something much more reasonable. It would do a lot more good besides for things like climate change and pollution.
What is wrong with dying with the most toys? What is happiness? Each of us has their own definition. So who is right?
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Old 19-04-2019, 10:22   #96
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Sustainable Sailing

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What is sustainable living?


To me, it means living beneath one’s “means”, a life style that you can maintain forever.

Now you may say that has nothing at all to do with the environment etc., but I maintain that it does, but maybe not directly.
Living beneath one’s means means not being stupid with your money to impress others, it means not buying bottled water, because it’s fashionable. Same with super expensive handbags etc.
It can mean sailing as opposed to cranking the motor, not burning Diesel so you can afford to go out to eat, or to buy Lobster instead of hotdogs etc.

Ideally even in Retirement your investments should grow, if not, then likely it’s not sustainable .

Adopt that mindset, and I feel sure you will lower your impact on the environment and greatly decrease or stop buying as much throw away items you can, simply because it’s wasteful.
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Old 19-04-2019, 10:38   #97
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Re: Sustainable Sailing

Sustainable Living: there is a wiki for that

Sustainable living describes a lifestyle[1] that attempts to reduce an individual's or society's use of the Earth's natural resources, and one's personal resources.[2] Its practitioners often attempt to reduce their carbon footprint by altering their methods of transportation, energy consumption, and/or diet.[3] Its proponents aim to conduct their lives in ways that are consistent with sustainability, naturally balanced, and respectful of humanity's symbiotic relationship with the Earth's natural ecology.[4] The practice and general philosophy of ecological living closely follows the overall principles of sustainable development.[5]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sustainable_living

Beyond the focus of that article I would say it includes trying to buy quality materials with a purpose. The pre-ripped jeans and bottle water are just two obvious examples of superfluous waste. Blitz not trivial. Go to any mall and walk around. How much stuff there is necessary or even functional? How many pairs of shoes do you need? How many pots and pans and various electric gizmos and gadgets? It goes on and on. Of course the live aboard boating community has little of that for obvious reasons.

https://newdream.org/blog/stuffcheck-shoes
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Old 19-04-2019, 10:53   #98
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Re: Sustainable Sailing

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Sustainable Living: there is a wiki for that

Sustainable living describes a lifestyle[1] that attempts to reduce an individual's or society's use of the Earth's natural resources, and one's personal resources.[2] Its practitioners often attempt to reduce their carbon footprint by altering their methods of transportation, energy consumption, and/or diet.[3] Its proponents aim to conduct their lives in ways that are consistent with sustainability, naturally balanced, and respectful of humanity's symbiotic relationship with the Earth's natural ecology.[4] The practice and general philosophy of ecological living closely follows the overall principles of sustainable development.[5]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sustainable_living
"carbon footprint" Really? Who cares? What dose it matter? I do not sail because it saves the environment but because I love the quiet, the challenge, the sounds and so much more.

There are thousands and thousands of aircraft flying right this moment, millions and millions of cars and trucks on the worlds roads, massive ships powering through the oceans and untold number of fossil fueled powerplants generating electrical power world wide.

Carbon Footprint? Really dose anyone really believe that anything they might do would make any measurable difference?
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Old 19-04-2019, 11:08   #99
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Re: Sustainable Sailing

There's is a simple way to solve the problem with plastic bottles and it has been done with huge success i Norway for 50 years. Just take a look at this clip from Sky News:





Why no other countries does it is a mystery to me...
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Old 19-04-2019, 11:15   #100
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Re: Sustainable Sailing

Here's how Sweden handle their waste:


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Old 19-04-2019, 14:02   #101
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Re: Sustainable Sailing

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"



Carbon Footprint? Really dose anyone really believe that anything they might do would make any measurable difference?


That is fine, your free to do so.
Myself as I said sustainable means to me that as long as I live, I will not have to go back to work or take a hit in my standard of living.
Just me, but I’ll make “Green” decisions as long as it can also save me money and doesn’t come with too egregious a cost.
You know what, it seems that very often living “green” to an extent saves me money, the Prius as an example, I bought it to save money, but didn’t mind that it’s more green than many other vehicles.
Using rags and washing them keeps us from buying that $25 pack of paper towels for example, and it’s no hardship, not really, we’re retired, we can spend a little more time doing things if it saves $$$.
Green often means frugal too
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Old 19-04-2019, 14:13   #102
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Re: Sustainable Sailing

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A64...Happiness is not dieting with the most toys, it’s living a feee life. Freedom from credit card debts and being a wage slave. Reduce, Reuse, Recycle should be our mantra....

There is nothing wrong with inexpensive toys you actually USE. How many people have a bicycle and actually use it? Or did they "out grow" that? Walking shoes, climbing gear, snorkeling stuff. I have a lot of toys, but many are quite cheap. I also like to look at the pile, figure out which I'm not using, and then scold myself for become too lazy or easily bored.


Whether working makes you a wage slave depends on the person. Without growth there is no life, and many people find that through work.



But if it is solely the pursuit of big toys, just for bragging rights, yeah, that's lame. We see a lot of those parked at the dock.
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Old 19-04-2019, 14:22   #103
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Re: Sustainable Sailing

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What is wrong with dying with the most toys? What is happiness? Each of us has their own definition. So who is right?

One of the central arguments of sustainable living is that pollution and damage to the environment hurts everyone. To the extent that you pollute (and zero is not possible) you are impacting other people and not paying them for that privilege. This is the problem with any resource (fish, clean air...) that is not subject to private ownership.


The happiness argument is just philosophy. We're all different. But you have to pursue that happiness without impinging on others. How much footprint do we each have a right to? That's the big question and I won't answer it. My footprint is certainly larger than some and smaller than others. I would not consider any (non-superyacht) cruiser high footprint.


To me "sustainable" is just the latest PC word for reducing waste. Like "fair," the user defines the word.
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Old 19-04-2019, 16:10   #104
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Re: Sustainable Sailing

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That is fine, your free to do so.
Myself as I said sustainable means to me that as long as I live, I will not have to go back to work or take a hit in my standard of living.
Just me, but I’ll make “Green” decisions as long as it can also save me money and doesn’t come with too egregious a cost.
You know what, it seems that very often living “green” to an extent saves me money, the Prius as an example, I bought it to save money, but didn’t mind that it’s more green than many other vehicles.
Using rags and washing them keeps us from buying that $25 pack of paper towels for example, and it’s no hardship, not really, we’re retired, we can spend a little more time doing things if it saves $$$.
Green often means frugal too
I retired at 47, purchased my boat, sold my various homes, land, cars, trucks and aircraft and have never looked back. Money is not an issue for me (at least if I do not go hog wild and try to purchase my own country ).

As for going "green", well I like plants as well, they taste wonderful.
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Old 19-04-2019, 17:13   #105
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Re: Sustainable Sailing

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What is sustainable living?
Just on the off chance you really want to know.

A way of life that can be* indefinitely maintained.

Many would insert

*shared by all humans and also be

Others may add

within the context of being stewards of our Mother Earth

not involving destroying our health, depleting valuable resources and wiping out whole ecosystems.


Generally, in contrast with a civilization that self-destructs in just a few hundred years.
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