Should Carnival reimburse the US?

[SURV69]

I agree the senator is grandstanding . . . gee . . . grandstanding is cheap and makes him look like he's doing something.

BUT, this Carnival Line crews just seems to operating with marbles in their collective heads, while the owners and managers are sluffing off what little profits they might be getting before the big Bankruptcy.

It seems that these huge . . . absolutely hugemongous huge ships are a danger to their passengers and a big bother to everyone else.

I find it interesting that the other cruise lines(probably not much better), don't make a big campaign out of Carnival's record.

[Richard_W]

Originally Posted by Anonymous7500

The Coast Guard didn't incur any expenses beyond their normal daily operating costs. They would have been involved in training or patrol activities anyway. It isn't like they launched a new ship and hired a bunch of employees to go out and observe the recovery efforts.

Good point ...

[jeremiason]

The cruise lines have had a 7.4% growth rate since 1980.

One statistic I found said they are carrying as many as 14.3 million passengers per year out of 30 diffrent US Ports.

Of course on the positive side, that creates 380,000 American jobs and an estimate 38 Billion dollars in US revenue. Cruise Ship Industry Statistics | Statistic Brain

With 14 million passengers a year, that is a significant impact on government emergency service (i.e.: USCG)... Imagine how many ambulances and hositals a city that size would have? Now figure in the occasional break down or flu epidemic and it does become a serious problem.

I think with a 7% annual growth and incredible revenues, the cruise line industry should start footing some of the bill related to their industry.

[hellosailor]

Senator Rockefeller is grandstanding. Like Chuck Schumer, he knows how to use any news story and turn it into publicity for himself while doing nothing to change the world.

Senator Rockefeller knows that the US has already collected taxes and fees that fund the responses that have been "spent" on Carnival. Carnival and their passengers have already paid for all the assitance they've received.

Senator Rockefeller knows this because his committee could have easily written new rules and levied new fees to make sure they were prepaid for all thse responses. Or, new regulations to make Carnival take other preventive measures.

So remember that every time you respond to this grandstanding jerk's announcement, you are only giving him free publicity. A grandstanding jerk who is whining about money while not doing his job, which is writing the rules to prevent these problems.

Folks like that need to be rid out of town on a split rail.

[Richard_W]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

Senator Rockefeller is grandstanding. Like Chuck Schumer, he knows how to use any news story and turn it into publicity for himself while doing nothing to change the world.

...

Folks like that need to be rid out of town on a split rail.

Although it is a different issue than OP intended ... I fully agree.
But ... writing the new rules that make sense is such a hard work.

[hellosailor]

There's an old story about a man who propositions a well-dressed woman on the street one day. She slaps his face and asks what does he think she is? And he asks if she'd sleep with him for a million dollars. She says for a million dollars, sure. And he replies, then we already know what you are, the only question is about the price.

Rockefeller KNOWS that Carnival has already paid for the rescues. He's just unhappy about the price--which he and his fellow CongressCritters already set and accepted. Buyers remorse, so to speak.

So commission a new USCG SAR "heavy ocean tow" vessel. Something big, fast, maybe convert a destroyer for the job. And put a whopping huge coinslot on the fantail, so you have to keep tossing in quarters to make it keep running. Don't want to call for the coin-operated boat? OK, don't call, the price goes up tomorrow.

Or require commercial cruise operators who carry more than 5,000 passengers a year through US ports to chip in to a rescue pool, whatever it costs to keep heavy tow vessels stationed every 500 miles along the US coast. Do a Ronald Reagan spin-off and make the cruise industry pay each cost separately from the general tax pool.

What the hell, while he's grandstanding, he can even help the economy.

But reimburse the costs of the aid? Hell no, they already paid what they were asked to, and they paid it up front.

[boatsmith]

Originally Posted by atoll

+1

+ 1 more

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

Personally, I think it would be a great idea if USCG operated as a profit center and charged all yacht/ship owners that needed their service.
It would wake up many operators who depended on Insurance policies and nanny state free rescue services to look a bit closer at their maintenance management and decision making processes.

No , no , you're into wallet biopsy stuff then.

Dave

[Astrid]

Well here is a cruise ship incident that is on the other foot--two cruise ships apparently rescued 21 people at sea on rafts:

Coast Guard interviews rafters rescued by 2 cruise ships - CNN.com

[hellosailor]

Actually, they were not Cubans, they were Disney employees in costume providing an "actiontainment adventure experience" for the passengers. Hey, does Disney know how to entertain, or what? (G)

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by jeremiason

The cruise lines have had a 7.4% growth rate since 1980.

One statistic I found said they are carrying as many as 14.3 million passengers per year out of 30 diffrent US Ports.

Of course on the positive side, that creates 380,000 American jobs and an estimate 38 Billion dollars in US revenue. Cruise Ship Industry Statistics | Statistic Brain

With 14 million passengers a year, that is a significant impact on government emergency service (i.e.: USCG)... Imagine how many ambulances and hositals a city that size would have? Now figure in the occasional break down or flu epidemic and it does become a serious problem.

I think with a 7% annual growth and incredible revenues, the cruise line industry should start footing some of the bill related to their industry.

The cruise companies take all the risks, make the huge investments and hopefully make a profit.
But somehow they are now being judged differently from other marine carriers.

Out of 2000 embarkation ports worldwide, there are only 30 in the USA…
Do you think if silly laws are passed by some grandstanding politicians, the industry will not react and adjust boarding itineraries to circumvent US bullying. Thus killing many US jobs.

While there are statistics about growth, meaningful statistics are what Cruise Ships provide to the US economy
$37.85 billion…314,000 jobs.

Cruise Ship Industry Statistics | Statistic Brain

[Astrid]

Here is an update:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/16/us...scue.html?_r=0

[Pelagic]

Thanks Astrid… Good face-saving/marketing decision

[hellosailor]

"With 14 million passengers a year, that is a significant impact on government emergency service (i.e.: USCG)... Imagine how many ambulances and hositals a city that size would have? "

Good point, bad math.

That's 14 million people but unlike the population of a city, most of those cruisers were only here for a week, and some of their medical care is provided by the cruise lines or by their own private insurance. Ignoring that, you still have 14 million divided by 52 weeks, and you are now down to a city of 269,000 souls. That would probably be served by a fairly small number of hospitals, one to three. In many states, there are single hospitals serving multiple counties with that much population. I have a friend who lives in one of those counties. The local volunteer fire/rescue squad can reach them in 15 minutes, if the roads are plowed. Then it will take an hour to reach the nearest Level 1 trauma center, whether it is by road or helicopter.

So...from 14 million passengers? A drain equal to one hospital, more or less. And of course, they don't all get medevac'd by the USCG, most just get taken off in a port and treated by the existing infrastructure.

$37 billion dollars ought to accomodate the budget line for that.

[jeremiason]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

The cruise companies take all the risks, make the huge investments and hopefully make a profit.
But somehow they are now being judged differently from other marine carriers.

Out of 2000 embarkation ports worldwide, there are only 30 in the USA…
Do you think if silly laws are passed by some grandstanding politicians, the industry will not react and adjust boarding itineraries to circumvent US bullying. Thus killing many US jobs.

While there are statistics about growth, meaningful statistics are what Cruise Ships provide to the US economy
$37.85 billion…314,000 jobs.

Cruise Ship Industry Statistics | Statistic Brain

You should run for Congress... It appears you have you have about as much fiscal sense as the people who have run our country into a 16 Trillion Dollar Debt.

Do your really think that 37 billion is being spent in the USA? Why do you think that the cruise lines convieniance flag their vessel when not operating in the USA?

When you mention the jobs statisic, it was published by the Cruiseship Industry, since the US Labor Department catagorizes Cruise Ship Employees as Recreational Workers, they are lumpped in with everyone else from Park employees to Life Guards. So no official statistics can be found.

You should check to see how many of those jobs the cruise ship industry claims to have generated. The jobs of Longshoremen, cab drivers, porters, ticket agents, food suppliers and the rest are all attributed to the cruise industry statitics, but are far from fulltime since the ships are normally in port more than 24 hours. For the remainder of the time someone else is claiming those jobs for their own statistics

As far as on board jobs, Carnival is one of the largest employers of foreign workers... Average salary for General Service Employees (Not Crew) on board a cruise ship is $1500 per month with 7 day work weeks on six month contracts... How many Americans do you think would work for that?