New Anchor-out Law - Madeira Beach FL

[acem]

The revised ordance seems ok to me. They regulate boats that cannot move on their own (no motor or sail) and is lived on. It should not effect cruisers.

I have spent some time in Madera beach and found it pleasant, especially the marina. My brother lives in a condo across johns pass (south) from mad beach there is alot of boating activities in the area. The area in the grey circle typically has alot of boats anchored out and is nice. The wholearea near the icw is poor anchorage to me because of the power boat traffic all night. Lots of wake rocking your boat.

Ironically there is a large sailboat remains washed up on the shore, near the va, across the icw from mad beach. It has been there for years.

Thx-Ace

[tomfl]

Originally Posted by 33trippindaisy

Most of us know which States we will be moving through, both coming and going. If you will be in a State that has these idiot laws, then you must be pro-active! Buy an Out of State Fishing License for all required persons on board, and yes for each State you will be in.....Why you ask? So you can fish, dive, and eat from the bounty available, and most of all you become a LEGAL fisherman no matter where your boat might be sitting unless they have a No Fishing Ordinance as well, in which case you don't spend a dollar and need to keep moving anyway. No LEO can stop you from anchoring to fish legally in their waters where you have all legal requirements to do so. Of course night fishing is Legal, and so is fishing in the same spot for five days if thats where you want to fish. Keep the poles out and baited, have all your "requirements" handy and ready for inspection, and enjoy your stay. Remember to be nice when approached, tell them your goal is to legally fish every mile of their State, and that you appreciate them for their "Service". Being a former LEO, I can assure you not many Judges will tolerate them hauling you to Court for legally fishing, with a current Fishing License from their State. We simply must be a bit smarter than they are, and legally counter every move without even an argument. Thats why I love fishing so much!

Earlier I asked for a cite concerning anchoring being a part of navigation. I would make the same request here.

I can assure you I have never seen a judge take kindly to an obvious dodge; which is what your solution sounds like. I know plenty of places where anchoring is prohibited (starting with many of the mooring fields) and using the excuse that you needed to anchor to fish there would get you a quick fine.

Not to mention offering a smart aleck answer about fishing every mile of the state would PO almost any LEO I know of. There are multiple reasons LEOs can board and inspect a boat, even if there is a claim the boat is legally fishing. I know plenty of legit commercial fishermen who have had their boats boarded.

I am not saying I am happy with more restrictions on cruising. But I am convinced that so called solutions like the one you suggest will only result in more restrictions.

As a lifelong Florida resident I can still recall when fishing in Florida was legal and no license was required. First a law was passed requiring a fresh water license with the assurance from pols that there would never be a law for a salt water fishing license; and we all know how that turned out. Same thing goes for limits on size and number of fish being caught; again there are now so many laws about fishing I am certain I don't know them all.

It is time to face the reality that more restrictions are coming; like it or not.

[Hardhead]

Originally Posted by redneckrob

Any "tyranny" from the government I've personally experienced has been at the city and county level, but we've got a big chunk of the population in the US that believes federal level government should be minimal so you've got an uphill battle against replacing patchwork local ordinances with anything remotely uniform. In fact the Submerged Lands Act that devolved control of waterways in state waters to the states is a relatively recent devolution and if anything the movement seems to be toward more local control.

Good point. The local government is where the most poorly thought through regulations have come from in my life. Almost like the people writing them weren't actually that smart. Hate to even think it.

[cpisz]

People keep saying to just skip this or that place but what happens when EVERY place has their own restrictions. It is coming. I am understanding of the derelict boat issue. It takes a certain amount of money to maintain a boat properly and keep it safe and anchored correctly. It should not be the towns responsibly when one washes ashore. I suppose the only alterative is to allow safety compliance inspections and tow away the boats that don't comply. But that also has privacy implications. And the boats have near zero value so there will be a cost.

[motion30]

Unless they got an exemption from Tallahassee this goes against state law

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by tomfl

Earlier I asked for a cite concerning anchoring being a part of navigation. I would make the same request here.

....

The UN law of the sea references it

. Passage shall be continuous and expeditious. However, passage includes stopping and anchoring, but only in so far as the same are incidental to ordinary navigation or are rendered necessary by force majeure or distress or for the purpose of rendering assistance to persons, ships or aircraft in danger or distress.

[cyan]

Originally Posted by cpisz

People keep saying to just skip this or that place but what happens when EVERY place has their own restrictions. It is coming. I am understanding of the derelict boat issue. It takes a certain amount of money to maintain a boat properly and keep it safe and anchored correctly. It should not be the towns responsibly when one washes ashore. I suppose the only alterative is to allow safety compliance inspections and tow away the boats that don't comply. But that also has privacy implications. And the boats have near zero value so there will be a cost.

Instead of expensive/intrusive inspections, how about just a sticker for periodically rounding a certain buoy under your own power, as some marinas require?

[Discovery 15797]

Originally Posted by Paul L

The UN law of the sea references it

UN law of the sea? ROFLMAO!

Surely you jest!

I suspect you are referring to the UN convention - Laws of the Seas (LOS).

But, I'm sure you're aware the US is not a signatory to that convention.

And, the specific part you are referring to is "Right of Innocent Passage" when a foreign vessel is transiting the territorial waters of another nation state.

[Eder]

I like to anchor out but doing so among a bunch of derelict boats with their masts cut off & pallets attached for extra room is disgusting. There should be laws against these boats.

[Island Time O25]

Originally Posted by Woodland Hills

I read these posts about auctioning them off, but who wants them? And if anyone wants a derelict boat can they afford to pay anything? It sounds like it would cost more than it brings in to administer the program. How would you get them ashore, where would you store them and who will pay to dispose of them. Finally who pays to obtain title? The taxpayer of course. Can these little towns pay for all this without raising taxes? Can they afford to lose a test case on freedom of navigation that takes up to a decade to wend its way higher and higher in the court system? I doubt it, thus it’s all bluff: they are just hoping to avoid pissing off the wrong deep pocketed boater or boating lawyer.
Legitimate cruisers have nothing to fear, it’s just part of the age old tradition of harassing the poor, better known as Rousting the Bums.

A salvager will realize about $3K on your average derelict 30ish footer. More if it's in better shape (sails, rig, etc). Basically the lead goes for 50-75c/lb, many derelicts have still saleable rigging, winches, engines, tanks, etc. To you or me to fix those components would cost thousands but to a salvager his labor cost for a couple of local kids working for him is $12-20/hr per kid. That's how he nets $3K in pure profits. On most derelicts that $3k would be just from lead.

As with most other "problems" it's mostly common sense solutions not followed which make those issues problems. When a salvager instead of being happy to grab a free to him derelict and make $3K net profit in the process tries to get $10-20K+ from what he perceives as a deep pocket which of course scares the towns and counties from actively fixing this issue.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Discovery 15797

UN law of the sea? ROFLMAO!

Surely you jest!

I suspect you are referring to the UN convention - Laws of the Seas (LOS).

But, I'm sure you're aware the US is not a signatory to that convention.

And, the specific part you are referring to is "Right of Innocent Passage" when a foreign vessel is transiting the territorial waters of another nation state.

The US is not a signator but honours the terms. A foreign vessel traveling in US waters would have these anchoring rights. Glad you could see the humor in this since I missed it.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Eder

I like to anchor out but doing so among a bunch of derelict boats with their masts cut off & pallets attached for extra room is disgusting. There should be laws against these boats.

Agreed. This is absolutely the worst part of traveling by boat in Florida. Anchoring laws, potty police, high prices, crowds? All tolerable. But the absolute addict/criminals you're stuck next to in the anchorage that won't leave you alone are the worst part.

Often we imagine someone down on their luck rowing ashore to work. I rarely see this. I see people drunk or high 24/7, deciding not to work, yelling and screaming, floating junkyards, inoperable engines, no sails, achored by a thread.

[33trippindaisy]

Originally Posted by tomfl

Earlier I asked for a cite concerning anchoring being a part of navigation. I would make the same request here.

I can assure you I have never seen a judge take kindly to an obvious dodge; which is what your solution sounds like. I know plenty of places where anchoring is prohibited (starting with many of the mooring fields) and using the excuse that you needed to anchor to fish there would get you a quick fine.

Not to mention offering a smart aleck answer about fishing every mile of the state would PO almost any LEO I know of. There are multiple reasons LEOs can board and inspect a boat, even if there is a claim the boat is legally fishing. I know plenty of legit commercial fishermen who have had their boats boarded.


I am not saying I am happy with more restrictions on cruising. But I am convinced that so called solutions like the one you suggest will only result in more restrictions.

As a lifelong Florida resident I can still recall when fishing in Florida was legal and no license was required. First a law was passed requiring a fresh water license with the assurance from pols that there would never be a law for a salt water fishing license; and we all know how that turned out. Same thing goes for limits on size and number of fish being caught; again there are now so many laws about fishing I am certain I don't know them all.

It is time to face the reality that more restrictions are coming; like it or not.

Sounds like the true words of a Florida resident who probably does not like folks cruising or fishing in his waters or maybe he just has someone parking in his view. I don't know for sure here folks but he seems angry. Since I have fished in every State I have ever boated in, legally I might add, I only offer a simple and yes Legal solution. What I have suggested is very certainly legal, and my point is this: if the Fla cities want to try legal anchoring tactics, you fight back with locally legal tactics. Thats it. For me, its not an issue, I do fish, I like fishing at night, and I am going to fish in your backyard if I want too and it's Legal. Nothing personal unless it is for you, because for me the water is as much mine as it is yours.......free to use with Permits, as always. As a husband/wife team of career/retired LEO's I can assure you I am not being a smart arse, I am being a legal fisherman. It does sound to me that you in fact know I am right and therefore wish to demean me for sharing the wonderful news. Other than that my several hundred appearances in Court before the Judge's, assures me that if I am legal, and within my Rights, and highly respectful in my delivery.......well as usual, I will leave the Courtroom as the winner. Good luck to you Sir, with your enjoyment!

ps. The Law is written plainly in the FWC Fishing Regulations

[33trippindaisy]

Folks, its an Honor to be Boarded by those required to enhance our National Security. I believe in having everything in order, in one place when possible, and welcome them aboard. Why not, I am a legal user of the Waterway. Having been boarded a few times, the usual response from LE is this......you must be Military or LE, your stuff is in order and we hope you enjoy your day! And I am both, a Veteran and an ex Cop, so again.......Tis a Reason for the Season.........

[Woodland Hills]

Originally Posted by Island Time O25

A salvager will realize about $3K on your average derelict 30ish footer. More if it's in better shape (sails, rig, etc). Basically the lead goes for 50-75c/lb, many derelicts have still saleable rigging, winches, engines, tanks, etc. To you or me to fix those components would cost thousands but to a salvager his labor cost for a couple of local kids working for him is $12-20/hr per kid. That's how he nets $3K in pure profits. On most derelicts that $3k would be just from lead.

As with most other "problems" it's mostly common sense solutions not followed which make those issues problems. When a salvager instead of being happy to grab a free to him derelict and make $3K net profit in the process tries to get $10-20K+ from what he perceives as a deep pocket which of course scares the towns and counties from actively fixing this issue.

The ones I saw heading south this year looked like they had already been stripped of everything except the keel/centerboard and mast. No winches or running rigging no wheel/tiller etc. I am sure the lead has some value, but will a scrapper pay a town enough to offset their expenses? Remember it will be city workers that will do the removal, haul out and storage and I doubt they will work for minimum wage.

You know how this will end up: all boaters will be paying into a fund for disposal of derelicts via state registration fees. Florida has the biggest problem, but it also has the largest number of boats to share the expenses. There are 914,000 registered boats in Florida, a $15 yearly fee would generate over $13,000,000. At $2500 per boat, that would dispose of 5,484 derelicts a year. Local communities could still auction them off to further offset their expenses.