Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 28-11-2022, 14:26   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Chesapeake
Boat: Catalina 22 Sport
Posts: 1,040
Lost passengers in South Pacific

Would be interested in thoughts on this recent story in the New York Times. Two men apparently lost at sea after a very strange trip.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...et-adrift.html
Apologies if you have trouble accessing - I do think it is behind a paywall.
First thing that struck me is that there was no mention of Coast Guard regulations that prohibit taking paying passengers unless licensed to do so. (They departed from Hawaii).
lestersails is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-11-2022, 15:09   #2
Registered User
 
Shrew's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,744
Re: Lost passengers in South Pacific

Quote:
Originally Posted by lestersails View Post
Would be interested in thoughts on this recent story in the New York Times. Two men apparently lost at sea after a very strange trip.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...et-adrift.html
Apologies if you have trouble accessing - I do think it is behind a paywall.
First thing that struck me is that there was no mention of Coast Guard regulations that prohibit taking paying passengers unless licensed to do so. (They departed from Hawaii).
It's behind a pay wall. There are no laws preventing someone from taking passengers. There are laws regulating "paying passengers". Not being able to read the story, I can only go by your post.
Shrew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-11-2022, 15:28   #3
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Victoria BC
Boat: Rafiki 37
Posts: 1,271
Re: Lost passengers in South Pacific

A hint - if you wait for the text to load and hit 'stop' (looks like a cross) before it fully loads the page it'll bypass the paywall.

Really sad story, I feel for the families. Too much internet is not good for anyone!
__________________
www.saildivefish.ca
alctel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-11-2022, 15:56   #4
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 481
Re: Lost passengers in South Pacific

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrew View Post
It's behind a pay wall. ... Not being able to read the story, I can only go by your post.
https://archive.ph/PsRu2
blu3534 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-11-2022, 16:11   #5
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Chesapeake
Boat: Catalina 22 Sport
Posts: 1,040
Re: Lost passengers in South Pacific

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrew View Post
It's behind a pay wall. There are no laws preventing someone from taking passengers. There are laws regulating "paying passengers". Not being able to read the story, I can only go by your post.
Hi shrew
You can sign up for a free account and get, I think, three free articles a day.
Good point on paying passengers - I am familiar with that distinction. FWIW, the article mentioned payment of thousands of dollars at the beginning of the story, but never made clear if that amount was actually paid.
lestersails is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-11-2022, 17:38   #6
Registered User
 
Jammer's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Minnesota
Boat: Tartan 3800
Posts: 3,582
Re: Lost passengers in South Pacific

Quote:
Originally Posted by lestersails View Post
Would be interested in thoughts on this recent story in the New York Times. Two men apparently lost at sea after a very strange trip.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...et-adrift.html
Apologies if you have trouble accessing - I do think it is behind a paywall.
First thing that struck me is that there was no mention of Coast Guard regulations that prohibit taking paying passengers unless licensed to do so. (They departed from Hawaii).

It has now been 17 years since the woman who was once my wife followed a largely identical path, but without the boats. Moderate schizophrenia. Rejection of family and institutions. Misuse of basic teachings of Judaism and Christianity to form a syncretic religion with the self as a prophet. Use of outward symbols (hers were distinctive religious garments rather than a forehead tattoo) to set herself apart from society. Connecting with others of like mind through the internet. Travel in furtherance of beliefs, in her case to Israel. Plans to abandon society, in her case by moving to New Zealand, with two of our three children (though she was never able to follow through on this due to passport and visa problems).



That combination of self-reinforcing beliefs and practices is not unusual.



With her it was a deliberate car crash rather than jumping off a boat. She survived and was admitted to an inpatient psychiatric facility for several weeks.


The courts ordered joint custody because in their eyes she wasn't bad enough to be a hazard to the kids, even after the car crash. Somewhere in there, there was another suicide attempt. There was blood. But because the children were not physically present (she called them to say goodbye), the courts didn't consider it relevant to the custody case.


My children are now all adults. They've been through hell. The one that was closest to her at the height of her mental illness hasn't spoken to me in years. I hear she's an aerospace engineer at Boeing now and doesn't speak to her mom much, either. The other two stay in touch with both parents. All three of my children cope OK but the scars are going to be there for a long time.


As for my ex, I hear she's better now. I believe she's on medication but have no way of knowing for sure. Once the alimony and child support ran out she got a job as a nursing assistant, working nights. She works nursing home and assisted living gigs and changes jobs frequently. In a few years she'll be able to collect social security based on my earnings history and will make more on that than she does as a nursing assistant.


Back to the article, well, the boat captains were a little broke and a little crazy, and taking a bunch of money off four people that were maybe a little crazier probably seemed like a good idea at the time. I believe that the narrative from the survivors is likely to be pretty accurate.
__________________
The difference between plans and dreams is that plans acknowledge the existence of inconvenient facts
Jammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-11-2022, 18:17   #7
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Chesapeake
Boat: Catalina 22 Sport
Posts: 1,040
Re: Lost passengers in South Pacific

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jammer View Post
It has now been 17 years since the woman who was once my wife followed a largely identical path, but without the boats. (much redacted)
Sheesh, Jammer, I am so sorry. You are a gracious person indeed to focus your empathy on the scars of the kids. No doubt they are just as deep in you. I hope you have found some peace for yourself. Terribly sad that anyone has to go through that.
lestersails is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-11-2022, 18:44   #8
Registered User
 
Celestialsailor's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Back in Northern California working on the Ranch
Boat: Pearson 365 Sloop and 14ft.Whitehall pulling skiff.
Posts: 10,171
Images: 5
Re: Lost passengers in South Pacific

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jammer View Post
It has now been 17 years since the woman who was once my wife followed a largely identical path, but without the boats. Moderate schizophrenia. Rejection of family and institutions. Misuse of basic teachings of Judaism and Christianity to form a syncretic religion with the self as a prophet. Use of outward symbols (hers were distinctive religious garments rather than a forehead tattoo) to set herself apart from society. Connecting with others of like mind through the internet. Travel in furtherance of beliefs, in her case to Israel. Plans to abandon society, in her case by moving to New Zealand, with two of our three children (though she was never able to follow through on this due to passport and visa problems).



That combination of self-reinforcing beliefs and practices is not unusual.



With her it was a deliberate car crash rather than jumping off a boat. She survived and was admitted to an inpatient psychiatric facility for several weeks.


The courts ordered joint custody because in their eyes she wasn't bad enough to be a hazard to the kids, even after the car crash. Somewhere in there, there was another suicide attempt. There was blood. But because the children were not physically present (she called them to say goodbye), the courts didn't consider it relevant to the custody case.


My children are now all adults. They've been through hell. The one that was closest to her at the height of her mental illness hasn't spoken to me in years. I hear she's an aerospace engineer at Boeing now and doesn't speak to her mom much, either. The other two stay in touch with both parents. All three of my children cope OK but the scars are going to be there for a long time.


As for my ex, I hear she's better now. I believe she's on medication but have no way of knowing for sure. Once the alimony and child support ran out she got a job as a nursing assistant, working nights. She works nursing home and assisted living gigs and changes jobs frequently. In a few years she'll be able to collect social security based on my earnings history and will make more on that than she does as a nursing assistant.


Back to the article, well, the boat captains were a little broke and a little crazy, and taking a bunch of money off four people that were maybe a little crazier probably seemed like a good idea at the time. I believe that the narrative from the survivors is likely to be pretty accurate.

I have worked in mental health as a Psychosocial Rehabilitation counselor, when I live in Hawaii. I can tell you kids usually side with the weaker parent. Even at the cost of the healthier one. I have seen the destruction and pain that it has caused. Don't even get me started on the judicial system and they have been getting away with their behavior for years. Sorry you had to go through that.
__________________
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: Wow - what a ride!"
Celestialsailor is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2022, 20:17   #9
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: New York, New York
Boat: Dufour Safari 27'
Posts: 1,899
Re: Lost passengers in South Pacific

It is a very interesting story. Isolation can lead to many problems among people, even healthy people. I have read of similar problems among those who are alone.
ArmyDaveNY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2022, 03:01   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Langley, WA
Boat: Nordic 44
Posts: 2,257
Re: Lost passengers in South Pacific

The article said that the captain did fishing charters in Hawaii. So he is probably licensed. Still, maybe only an OUPV without sailing and near coastal endorsements.

I had a lot of pickup crews on my circumnavigation. Mostly young kids seeking adventure. My worst fear was coming on deck and finding no one there. Never happened but I did have a kid that was hot one night and dragged himself through the water hanging on to the windvane. No safety harness or line. One slip and he would have been history.
stormalong is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2022, 11:46   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Chesapeake
Boat: Catalina 22 Sport
Posts: 1,040
Re: Lost passengers in South Pacific

Quote:
Originally Posted by stormalong View Post
The article said that the captain did fishing charters in Hawaii. So he is probably licensed. Still, maybe only an OUPV without sailing and near coastal endorsements. (redacted)

Good point - I had missed that.
lestersails is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2022, 08:47   #12
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Olympia, WA
Boat: 1974 Olympic Adventure Ketch
Posts: 36
Re: Lost passengers in South Pacific

Aside from the tragic aspect of this entire story, this "messianic" guy lands on Huahine and just starts living there and evangelizing? He is not deported? I cannot imagine he came there legally. Cruisers spend a lot of time and money getting visas to visit via boat. How is it that he is allowed to do this? Genuinely confused about that. I understand that probably manpower is low but wow.
MWhite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2022, 08:52   #13
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Sidney, BC and Calabogie ON, Canada
Posts: 190
Re: Lost passengers in South Pacific

Stormalong. Met a skipper in the Canaries who told me a similar story about a young crew member hanging off the transom mid ocean while underway. I was never tempted. Becalmed north of Tonga I did dip my "big toe" in though. If you check Yves Gelinas' film (Manufacturer of the Cape Horn self steering rig), while tethered he went overboard mid passage to film his boat sailing along now sans crew. He was single handing. We were equipped with the gear.

The film With Jean-du-Sud Around the World – CapHorn – Régulateur d’allure intégré
argonauta1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2022, 09:15   #14
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Point Richmond
Boat: Amel 41
Posts: 200
Send a message via Yahoo to lo2jones
Re: Lost passengers in South Pacific

The “scientist turned religious zealot” is the one that intrigues me. Anyone with serious enough background to explain how that might happen? I witnessed upclose and personal how the Moonies “captured” young, vulnerable college students. (Not me, by the way)
lo2jones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2022, 10:51   #15
Registered User
 
Jammer's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Minnesota
Boat: Tartan 3800
Posts: 3,582
Re: Lost passengers in South Pacific

Quote:
Originally Posted by lo2jones View Post
The “scientist turned religious zealot” is the one that intrigues me. Anyone with serious enough background to explain how that might happen? I witnessed upclose and personal how the Moonies “captured” young, vulnerable college students. (Not me, by the way)

Above average intelligence leading to overconfidence in being able to think for themself



Mild schizophrenia worsened by short-term stress


Low self esteem despite high achievements, often due to a dysfunctional family of origin



Weak or conflicting family, cultural, and institutional ties

Seeking a way to escape commitments or upcoming changes without losing face


Often with a stream of money coming in so they don't have to work (Trust fund, disability, inheritance, etc)
__________________
The difference between plans and dreams is that plans acknowledge the existence of inconvenient facts
Jammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
lost, south pacific

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Dropping passengers off in Bocas del Toro estrelladelmar Atlantic & the Caribbean 1 06-03-2012 06:44
Wider Girths Mean Fewer Boat Passengers keyspc Provisioning: Food & Drink 12 12-01-2012 14:11
Crew Available: crew/passengers available - Caribbean vasouman Crew Archives 1 06-01-2012 21:47
Six Hundred Passengers Stuck on Showboat Run Aground in Missouri Hillbillyfunk The Sailor's Confessional 2 23-01-2011 19:41
Budget for Extra Passengers USCMustangMan General Sailing Forum 12 12-02-2008 14:08

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 00:15.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.