Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 28-11-2019, 09:27   #16
Registered User
 
NorthernMac's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2019
Boat: A185F, Mystic 30’ Cutter
Posts: 300
Re: Homeless Anchor out

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
Many "liveaboard and cruisers" among us that maintain our boats and not let them become floating garbage and trash barges welcome reasonable restrictions on anchoring etc. I think the problem is that in a PC world you have to dance around the issue you wish to address (boat trash scum) and in the wording others get sweep up in the rules.
“Reasonable restrictions” that’s a government version of “just the tip”



Things work themselves out on their own, and removing homeless is best done by not subsidizing them.


Besides I’d rather see a few waterworld looking boats than be treated like I’m in a HOA but with the enforcers being paid by my own tax dollars.
__________________

NorthernMac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-11-2019, 09:39   #17
Moderator
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Albany Ga.
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 28,771
Re: Homeless Anchor out

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poche View Post
I have not seen any evidence that the municipalities along a coast have the right to own or administer a bay or waterway just because they are located on its shore.

Apparently, they assume that role because they happen to police the areas and there isn't a lot of struggle to oppose them expanding that role to infringe anchoring, for example. I have seen the coastal commission step in along the California coast to fight for surfer access and protect wetland habitats from development apparently given the green light by these cities or counties. So, it would seem that the commission has the authority. Getting them to fight a municipality with their staff lawyers seems to be very difficult, however.


Well many years ago it was determined the the State of Fl owns the submerged land under the water, so pretty much by default they control the water. A Marina for example leases the land under the water from the State, interestingly from the State E.P.A.

Washington State and others way up North solve the “problem” every year with what they call Winter. Be a real tough person to survive a Maine Winter at anchor for example.
__________________

a64pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-11-2019, 09:56   #18
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: St Augustine, FL
Boat: Woods Vardo 34 Cat
Posts: 3,318
Re: Homeless Anchor out

My experience with this is good laws like the WA one are hard and expensive to enforce. Newport, RI has been doing a good job allowing 10 days I think anchored then need to leave the anchorage area for 3 days.
__________________
@mojomarine1
Boatguy30 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-11-2019, 10:06   #19
Registered User
 
NorthernMac's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2019
Boat: A185F, Mystic 30’ Cutter
Posts: 300
Re: Homeless Anchor out

Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
Well many years ago it was determined the the State of Fl owns the submerged land under the water, so pretty much by default they control the water. A Marina for example leases the land under the water from the State, interestingly from the State E.P.A.

Washington State and others way up North solve the “problem” every year with what they call Winter. Be a real tough person to survive a Maine Winter at anchor for example.
Also let’s define homeless

Most real homeless after feeding their demons (drugs, booze, etc) and eating something, can’t even get enough together for first and last, I highly doubt boat ownership is highly common.

I recently read a review on navionics about “derelict” boats at a marina that “even had people on them”, kinda laughed,, some privileged folks crack me up.
A few friends of mine who came from little and make good money now, their wives don’t work and really never did for the most part, but man do they like to act high and mighty around folks that make less than them (or rather their husbands), funny thing is if they were cut off they’d probably be hard pressed to even live on one of those “derelict” boats, but their husbands would be more likely to start up a conversation with someone on one of those boats and maybe even crack a beer. It’s a odd thing.


As far as states declaring they own the water, cool, we should make them be responsible for homeowners flooding and coastal erosion, take it out of the states pension fund
NorthernMac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-11-2019, 10:33   #20
Senior Cruiser
 
newhaul's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: puget sound washington
Boat: 1968 Islander bahama 24 hull 182, 1963 columbia 29 defender. hull # 60
Posts: 8,359
Re: Homeless Anchor out

Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthernMac View Post
Also let’s define homeless

Most real homeless after feeding their demons (drugs, booze, etc) and eating something, can’t even get enough together for first and last, I highly doubt boat ownership is highly common.

I recently read a review on navionics about “derelict” boats at a marina that “even had people on them”, kinda laughed,, some privileged folks crack me up.
A few friends of mine who came from little and make good money now, their wives don’t work and really never did for the most part, but man do they like to act high and mighty around folks that make less than them (or rather their husbands), funny thing is if they were cut off they’d probably be hard pressed to even live on one of those “derelict” boats, but their husbands would be more likely to start up a conversation with someone on one of those boats and maybe even crack a beer. It’s a odd thing.
technically I and many others on this forum would qualify as homeless .
By the rules if you don't have a residential mailing address you are homeless ( P.O. Boxes and PMB boxes don't qualify . So if you live on your boat but don't have a mailbox there you are homeless.

The real issue isn't homeless on boats its those that don't care about their appearance .

My boat is clean and " ship shape" nobody would even blink at it anchored out .


As to the laws here in Washington it ensures that vessels are safe and navigable .
Dealing with derelict vessels is paid for via a $1.00 fee on all boat licenses that helps defray the cost . The vessels that are seized are sold at public auction . Those that don't sell are sent to the breakers.
The only rule to buy one is you have to prove you have the funds to pay for a haul out. Which must be done within 10 days of purchase. Many are bought by the local salvage yards to be parted out just like cars.
__________________
Non illigitamus carborundum
newhaul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-11-2019, 10:48   #21
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Somewhere in the SE Asia
Boat: Cooper 416
Posts: 177
Re: Homeless Anchor out

First, the Submerged Land Act of 1953 which is codified in US Code 43 gave all US states jurisdiction of navigable waters and the submerged land from the mean high tide line up to 3 miles out of the coastline.

Secondly. this has already been adjudicated multiple times. The right to anchor anywhere you want within a 3 mile boundary is not a "fundamental right," so restrictions will be upheld in court if there is a rational basis. In order to fight the laws you must prove the regulations lack any possible reasonable basis. States will easily argue 1) danger to navigation, 2) environmental hazards, 3) safety. (Murphy v. Department of Natural Resources, Barber v. State of Hawaii, Hawaiian Navigable Waters Preservation Soc. v. State of Hawaii)

So...to answer the question of whether or not a state or municipality has authority or the legal standing to control anchorages within their jurisdiction the answer is clearly YES.

WRT to taxation and "rich countries" experiencing homelessness...the "homeless" issue in the US is largely a myth. Yes, I do recognize that are a number of people in the US who are indeed homeless due to unforeseen circumstances. This is true in virtually every country in the world. But, in places like San Francisco and Seattle and a growing number of other cities the problem is more related to mental illness, drugs, alcohol, and perhaps a sprinkling of others who simply do what they want and "society be damned." But, the media and others prey on people's emotions and present this "homeless crisis" in order to allow these vagrants to flaunt the law in the guise of "good intentions." (See video Seattle is Dying). Also, there is a generous payout to cities from government to address "homelessness" so there is financial incentive to play it up.

IMHO, no reasonable person should condone non-navigable boats littering the waterways. These vessels create a poor image/reputation for all boaters, and especially live-a-boards, and cruisers.
__________________
-----------------------------------------------
S/V Discovery 15797 (https://www.QuestsOfDiscovery.com)
WA7WJR & XV9WJR
Discovery 15797 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-11-2019, 11:03   #22
Are you serious?
 
sailorboy1's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: currently in Boot Key/Marathon Fl
Boat: Hunter 410
Posts: 16,141
Re: Homeless Anchor out

people LIVING on a boat ................................... aren't homeless!!!!!!!
__________________
jobless, houseless, clueless, living on a boat and cruising around somewhere
sailorboy1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-11-2019, 11:07   #23
Senior Cruiser
 
GordMay's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 37,047
Images: 241
Re: Homeless Anchor out

Being homeless is awful, but if you've ever tried to wrestle a duvet cover back onto a comforter, you’ll realize it's not without it's benefits.


I was gonna give my change to a homeless guy once, but his sign said "ONE DAY IT COULD BE YOU."
So I held onto it, just in case he was right.
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-11-2019, 11:08   #24
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 1,470
Re: Homeless Anchor out

Quote:
Originally Posted by newhaul View Post
Washington state has solved this issue to some degree. They passed a state law requiring vessels that are anchored out to move at a minimum of 5 nautical miles every 30 days with no more than a total of 90 days in a calendar year in the same anchorage. Unless on an approved private mooring.

From the wac code
) What is the length of time that a vessel may be moored or anchored on state-owned aquatic lands? Persons shall not moor or anchor a vessel in the same area on state-owned aquatic lands for periods longer than thirty consecutive days or for more than a total of ninety days in any three hundred sixty-five day period. For purposes of WAC 332-52-155, "in the same area" means within a radius of five miles of any location where the vessel was previously moored or anchored.
https://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default....ite=332-52-155
This seems perfect, actually.

A great model for everyone else.
Chotu is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 28-11-2019, 11:22   #25
Registered User
 
NorthernMac's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2019
Boat: A185F, Mystic 30’ Cutter
Posts: 300
Re: Homeless Anchor out

Quote:
Originally Posted by newhaul View Post
technically I and many others on this forum would qualify as homeless .
By the rules if you don't have a residential mailing address you are homeless ( P.O. Boxes and PMB boxes don't qualify . So if you live on your boat but don't have a mailbox there you are homeless.

The real issue isn't homeless on boats its those that don't care about their appearance .

My boat is clean and " ship shape" nobody would even blink at it anchored out .


As to the laws here in Washington it ensures that vessels are safe and navigable .
Dealing with derelict vessels is paid for via a $1.00 fee on all boat licenses that helps defray the cost . The vessels that are seized are sold at public auction . Those that don't sell are sent to the breakers.
The only rule to buy one is you have to prove you have the funds to pay for a haul out. Which must be done within 10 days of purchase. Many are bought by the local salvage yards to be parted out just like cars.
I should go get a job for government and go through the marina, if I find a boat where the lines arnt whipped or back spliced, your varnish isn’t like glass, off to the chopping yard your boat goes lol
NorthernMac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-11-2019, 12:32   #26
Senior Cruiser
 
newhaul's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: puget sound washington
Boat: 1968 Islander bahama 24 hull 182, 1963 columbia 29 defender. hull # 60
Posts: 8,359
Re: Homeless Anchor out

Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthernMac View Post
I should go get a job for government and go through the marina, if I find a boat where the lines arnt whipped or back spliced, your varnish isn’t like glass, off to the chopping yard your boat goes lol
ship shape doesn't mean Bristol condition.
Ship shape just means clean and basically ready to put to sea in less than an hours time.
When on the hook I'm ready to go at a moments notice:-):-)
in the marina it would take 30 minutes:-)
__________________
Non illigitamus carborundum
newhaul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-11-2019, 12:41   #27
Senior Cruiser
 
newhaul's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: puget sound washington
Boat: 1968 Islander bahama 24 hull 182, 1963 columbia 29 defender. hull # 60
Posts: 8,359
Re: Homeless Anchor out

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
people LIVING on a boat ................................... aren't homeless!!!!!!!
technically we are " sheltered " homeless .
Because we can get out of the weather .
Its just how my state looks at it all.
__________________
Non illigitamus carborundum
newhaul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-11-2019, 12:46   #28
Moderator
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Albany Ga.
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 28,771
Homeless Anchor out

I sold the house and farm and now live on a boat, but I am not homeless.
I say that as I have a “Statement of Domicile” signed and notorized and on file in the Green Cove Court House, and my Fl drivers license where the address is has my Vessels USCG document number.
So I have two Government documents that say my house is my boat.

Still I have troubles opening a bank account etc since 911 a physical address is required to do so.

I’m careful of that because it’s my belief that those that are legally classified Homeless will soon, if they have not already, lose several rights.
a64pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-11-2019, 12:48   #29
Senior Cruiser
 
newhaul's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: puget sound washington
Boat: 1968 Islander bahama 24 hull 182, 1963 columbia 29 defender. hull # 60
Posts: 8,359
Re: Homeless Anchor out

Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
I sold the house and farm and now live on a boat, but I am not homeless.
I say that as I have a “Statement of Domicile” signed and motorized and on file in the Green Cove Court House, and my Fl drivers license where the address is has my Vessels USCG document number.
So I have two Government documents that say my house is my boat.

Still I have troubles opening a bank account etc since 911 a physical address is required to do so.
in Washington you would be considered homeless.
__________________
Non illigitamus carborundum
newhaul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-11-2019, 13:00   #30
Registered User
 
NorthernMac's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2019
Boat: A185F, Mystic 30’ Cutter
Posts: 300
Re: Homeless Anchor out

Quote:
Originally Posted by newhaul View Post
ship shape doesn't mean Bristol condition.
Ship shape just means clean and basically ready to put to sea in less than an hours time.
When on the hook I'm ready to go at a moments notice:-):-)
in the marina it would take 30 minutes:-)
That type of law is ripe for abuse

They should leave seaworthy to the USCG and worry about all their real problems in their states.





Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
I sold the house and farm and now live on a boat, but I am not homeless.
I say that as I have a “Statement of Domicile” signed and notorized and on file in the Green Cove Court House, and my Fl drivers license where the address is has my Vessels USCG document number.
So I have two Government documents that say my house is my boat.

Still I have troubles opening a bank account etc since 911 a physical address is required to do so.

I’m careful of that because it’s my belief that those that are legally classified Homeless will soon, if they have not already, lose several rights.
Now that’s very interesting, so you have your doc number as your address, I could see some benifits and draw backs to that, never thought of that before, interesting.

Per rights, I think that ship sailed around the “patriot act”, at least with the boat you’re a little less of a blip on the radar, using work addresses and private mailboxes helps too


Now I thought anything with a bed, bath and kitchen, or birth head and galley, was considered a house, wasn’t that how folks were getting the tax credits for solar?
__________________

NorthernMac is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
anchor

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Boat explosion leaves family burned and homeless. Orrjames General Sailing Forum 1 01-03-2014 10:11
Homeless in the Florida Keys endoftheroad Liveaboard's Forum 45 23-05-2013 17:54
homeless liveaboards and snailmail rnjpinz Liveaboard's Forum 39 24-04-2013 15:19
Paid for Being Homeless ? JanetGroene Off Topic Forum 14 08-07-2011 06:39

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 17:00.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.