French taxes keeping visiting boats away..

[Tomahawk]

OK , so most on here can't afford a mega yacht ... (well I certainly can't) but it seems French taxation is having a damaging effect on the tourist trade..

Saint-Tropez gets sinking feeling as number of yachts in its marina plunges

Very predictable.

[boatman61]

Never had to pay any taxes in a French marina.. however have avoided/entered and left a few because of ridiculous prices.

[rognvald]

A socialist government agenda needs money to pay for its unending programs. There are three ways to pay for these programs: borrow money, print money or taxation. All three are counter-productive to a healthy, fiscally sound government and to a healthy, vibrant economy. Eventually, when imposed to excess, they will force a country into bankruptcy, for example: Greece in Europe and Illinois in the US. Since most politicians are ideologues rather than educated businessmen, they cannot see this connection until it is too late. Some are intellectually incapable of seeing it at all. So, a drop in French boating tourism due to taxation? . . . ask a businessman, why? . . . you won't find out from a politician. Good luck and safe sailing.

[sv Grateful]

Originally Posted by rognvald

A socialist government agenda needs money to pay for its unending programs. There are three ways to pay for these programs: borrow money, print money or taxation. All three are counter-productive to a healthy, fiscally sound government and to a healthy, vibrant economy. Eventually, when imposed to excess, they will force a country into bankruptcy, for example: Greece in Europe and Illinois in the US. Since most politicians are ideologues rather than educated businessmen, they cannot see this connection until it is too late. Some are intellectually incapable of seeing it at all. So, a drop in French boating tourism due to taxation? . . . ask a businessman, why? . . . you won't find out from a politician. Good luck and safe sailing.

Ever been to France, or do you just sit in your living room watching FOX?

[rognvald]

Originally Posted by sv Grateful

Ever been to France, or do you just sit in your living room watching FOX?

Grateful,
Your above remark is not really a well-reasoned response but an emotional one. One does not have to go to the scene of a fire to know what kind of destruction has occurred. In the same light, one does not have to go to France to know their politics as much as one does not have to go to North Korea to know the politics of Kim. I don't watch TV, although you assume I do(I get my news from Deutsche Welle and the BBC) . . . I have too many interests in my life with too little time. However, the post stated a loss of tourism in marinas from "French Taxes" . . . what do you think caused it? The bubonic plague? Good luck and safe sailing.

[Flyingriki]

Originally Posted by sv Grateful

Ever been to France, or do you just sit in your living room watching FOX?

Very rude and not at all helpful to the discussion.

[zboss]

Something sounds fishy here. The act of filling up in Italy to save taxes, like 8 hours away between mega yacht facilities from France, is also keeping them from docking in France after they fill? Sounds more like they don't have room for all the boats that have increased in size dramatically these last year or two.

[dwedeking2]

If you read the article a lot has to do with payroll and associated taxes. When you combine all the taxes related to fueling, keeping staff and docking then that 8 hours isn't that big of an issue.

Politicians (for the most part) don't look past their immediate projected revenue increases and could care less about longer term economic issues especially related to anything outside their own re-election or bureaucratic fiefdom.

[denverd0n]

I don't want to get too political, but I got an insight into how politicians think about money a few years back...

County commissioners in my county were considering raising the tax on gasoline. Their math went like this: 5 million gallons of gas are sold every year in our county. If we raise the tax by 5 cents per gallon we will collect an additional $250k of revenues.

Uh, no, it doesn't work like that. Several people testified at the meeting, demonstrating how, if you raise the tax by 5 cents then a whole lot of people will choose to buy their gas elsewhere, so you will NOT raise an additional $250k. In fact, raise the tax enough, and you will actually see a net DECREASE, as almost everyone decides to buy elsewhere when they can.

You never saw so many blank stares in your life coming from behind the commissioners bench. They just could not grasp the concept that it would not work out to be .05 x 5,000,000 = $250K of new revenues.

But, as has already been said, people make choices when it comes to their money. Even the ultra-rich don't just throw away their money willy-nilly (they didn't get rich in the first place by being stupid with their money!). I have no doubt, though, that the politicians never even considered the possibility of this very predictable result -- that at least some people would choose to go elsewhere if the taxes were raised.

[bicyclewriter]

Taxes (and their effect) seem to me to be a pretty complex issue that's often oversimplified for political gain. While it's easy to assume that all you have to do is lower taxes and people will come buy stuff where your taxes are lower, there's plenty of evidence to suggest this just isn't as high on the decision tree as we'd think. There are plenty of states in the US with a high tax base and yet their population continues to grow at higher rates than other states. And plenty of states with low tax rates where they continue bleeding population. Look at the disaster in Kansas over the past couple years as they've implemented tax and economic policy that seems in lock step with those who say less tax will mend all ills. Germany has one of the most "social" of economies, and they've been kicking some serious a** in recent years in relation to some of the less "social" countries.

I'm not promoting one or the other, just pointing out that it's not as simple as we'd like. Since this isn't a political forum, I'd like to stay non-political on this and not say one way is right at the other is wrong, because like I say I think it's more complex than the soundbite answers would make it seem. Bottom line is that every government takes money in the form of taxes from its citizens, then redistributes this money back to the people it wants to. Our reduced taxes in recent years haven't really reduced any taxes in the long run, they've just deferred the tax to the next generation. Who benefits from that? Dunno -- take a look around and decide who's been getting fat and who's been gettin' skinny.

As to the most likely of reasons for tourism falling off in France, I'd agree with a comment above that it probably has more to do with the poor manners of many in France and what I've often heard referred to as their apparent disdain for tourists.

[denverd0n]

I have never heard anyone suggest that low taxes will "mend all ills." Never.

[zboss]

Originally Posted by dwedeking2

If you read the article a lot has to do with payroll and associated taxes. When you combine all the taxes related to fueling, keeping staff and docking then that 8 hours isn't that big of an issue.

Politicians (for the most part) don't look past their immediate projected revenue increases and could care less about longer term economic issues especially related to anything outside their own re-election or bureaucratic fiefdom.

That's what I'm saying. The taxes seem to be about French boat crews and taxes on fuel but there is no mention that the worlds marinas are running out of megayacht parking space.

[Pilou]

Originally Posted by rognvald

Grateful,
Your above remark is not really a well-reasoned response but an emotional one...(...) One does not have to go to France to know their politics as much as one does not have to go to North Korea to know the politics of Kim. I don't watch TV....

So, you compare France to North Korea ? For sure "your above remark is not really a well-reasoned response but an emotional one".

Now I trust that you never been to France neither to North Korea, also that you don't watch tv ! Guess what ? Go to Wikipedia and check out about France, North Korea, then compare both of the countries, I bet you would get the surprise of your life.

You should watch tv, at least once on a while

[Vipe6]

No one likes paying taxes but everyone wants the Fire Department to come when their house is on fire, or to be rescued when their boat is sinking, or education, or.. or... Why is it so stupid to think that the broadest shoulders should carry the heaviest burden? You can try loading al the burden on the weakest shoulder and it will actually look as if it's working for a short while but don't come crying when he collapses under the burden or even worse starts a revolution. Btw, I hear daily that less taxation of the super wealthy will mend all evils, I hear it on tv, the radio and everytime a neoliberal politician opens his mouth.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Vipe6

Why is it so stupid to think that the broadest shoulders should carry the heaviest burden?

It's simple human nature. Why would the strong agree to carry a heavier burden if they don't get to keep that heavy burden (or at least some increased share relative to the extra size of the burden). If pushed, they agree to carry the same load as the smallest guy and a lot less burden gets carried.

This fits perfectly with the explanation of why jumping the percentage tax on gas up in a small community can actually reduce the total tax collected. Those with a reasonable option will take action to not carry the heavier burden without fair compensation for the extra work.

This also explains the complaints about unionized factory jobs being shipped overseas. It wasn't some secret cabal out to get the unionized worker. In the 70s-80s labor prices got so in many industries high that it was cheaper to ship materials halfway around the world rather than pay exorbitant local labor prices...so the completely expected happened...

Now you do have situations where there is no alternative or you have cartel behavior (ie: the EU mandating that members VAT exceed 20% and punishing any member that resists). To a degree that works but only if you can limit the alternatives but like water, it will find any gaps in the system.