Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooling

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Going Walkabout

HI Lake Effect, are you guys in Toronto still getting all that acid rain being blown a cross from China. They used to report on it 10 years ago but no one seems to be talking about it now. Should be much worse now given that China has become the world's greatest C02 polluter.

Isn't acid rain a by product of unclean coal burning. The type of unclean coal burned in China?

Acid rain comes from sulpher dioxide and nitrous oxides in the emissions, not CO2. The majority of acid rain experienced in Canada is caused by emissions from the US. Fortunately, the cleanup efforts led by the US EPA have greatly reduced the problem. We no longer have lakes and streams in danger.

China and emissions - A long while back I posted a link showing that China was installing coal stack scrubbers at a higher rate than the US, who at the time still had some 40% of coal plants without them.

Can't find that link but will give you this:
https://www.technologyreview.com/s/5...-coal-problem/

There's also many links around that describe how China has over-built generators, and a significant percentage of them may never get used, or will never work to capacity. So predicting the rise in their emissions is difficult.

But - what is it with you and the Far East? Aren't you in business? Don't you buy stuff? The west has sent the bulk of its manufacturing to them, where there's lower costs (and standards) for labour, and yes, less restrictions on pollution and discharge. They're making a mess as they make cheap stuff for us.

Do you like seafood? Ever buy it frozen? Check where alot of it comes from. Globally, there's overfishing, and it's so that we - ALL of us - have fish available cheap. Remember how we wiped out cod on the Grand Banks? All by western selves; didn't need the east helping to pull that off.

Pollution, overfishing etc - It's not their mess, it's our mess (us AND them). It's ridiculous to rant on 'them' here, using your Chinese computer.

[jimbunyard]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

Acid rain comes from sulpher dioxide and nitrous oxides in the emissions, not CO2. The majority of acid rain experienced in Canada is caused by emissions from the US. Fortunately, the cleanup efforts led by the US EPA have greatly reduced the problem. We no longer have lakes and streams in danger.

China and emissions - A long while back I posted a link showing that China was installing coal stack scrubbers at a higher rate than the US, who at the time still had some 40% of coal plants without them.

Can't find that link but will give you this:
https://www.technologyreview.com/s/5...-coal-problem/

There's also many links around that describe how China has over-built generators, and a significant percentage of them may never get used, or will never work to capacity. So predicting the rise in their emissions is difficult.

But - what is it with you and the Far East? Aren't you in business? Don't you buy stuff? The west has sent the bulk of its manufacturing to them, where there's lower costs (and standards) for labour, and yes, less restrictions on pollution and discharge. They're making a mess as they make cheap stuff for us.

Do you like seafood? Ever buy it frozen? Check where alot of it comes from. Globally, there's overfishing, and it's so that we - ALL of us - have fish available cheap. Remember how we wiped out cod on the Grand Banks? All by western selves; didn't need the east helping to pull that off.

Pollution, overfishing etc - It's not their mess, it's our mess (us AND them). It's ridiculous to rant on 'them' here, using your Chinese computer.

Ridiculous indeed.... just like the 'per capita' argument, the 'fisheries' argument, the 'volcano argument, the 'icebreaker' argument, the 'too small a percentage' argument.....apparently the only thing certain in some peoples minds is that it's someone else's fault.

For instance fishing:

Population of China 1.4 billion

Total fish production, capture and aquaculture 49,467,275 tons
Capture (wild) production 17,053,191
Aquaculture production 32,414,018

while the same US statistics are:

Population 319 million

Total 5,360,579
Wild 4,888,621
Aquaculture 471,958

So an individual in the US consumes .0153 tons of wild fish a year, while an individual in China consumes .0121 tons. Wonder what the comparison to say, I don't know --- beef would be?...

Oh wait, we're talking 'per capita' again, so it doesn't matter.


Obviously a simplistic comparison, but some general conclusions can be drawn by any open-minded individual...

[SV THIRD DAY]

Originally Posted by StuM

Population of US: 320 million
Population of China: 1,360 million.

Total GHG and Garbage emissions per country: ????

Yep, we know who's attempting the misdirection here

Based on LE's argument and on this list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ons_per_capita, we should all be concentrating on the activities of the "big three": Belize, Qatar and Guyana

And with one simple Post we are reminded how those intent to deceive use Statistics...Thanks StuM.

Just like LE's bogus line about China putting on Scrubbers at twice the rate as the USA...ha ha ha. It's a worthless data point, but it fits the slant and agenda LE is pushing...so he throws it out there for the uneducated MMGWC to slurp up...halarious...but it's how Cults work on half truth and meaningless statistics used to scare believers from leaving the Cult.

[conachair]

Does anyone still actually believe nothing is happening? Just business as usual for the planet..

[SV THIRD DAY]

....and what do you think is causing it, your SUV or the SUN?

[GoingWalkabout]

China's air pollution could be intensifying storms over the Pacific Ocean and altering weather patterns in North America, according to scientists in the US.

A team from Texas, California and Washington state has found that pollution from Asia, much of it arising in China, is leading to more intense cyclones, increased precipitation and more warm air in the mid-Pacific moving towards the north pole.

According to the team's findings, which were released on Monday in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, these changes could ultimately contribute to erratic weather in the US.

The authors used advanced computer models to study interactions between clouds and fine airborne particles known as aerosols, particularly manmade ones such as those emitted from vehicles and coal-fired power plants.

"Our work provides, for the first time to the authors' knowledge, a global multi-scale perspective of the climatic effects of pollution outflows from Asia," says the study's abstract.

[conachair]

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

....and what do you think is causing it, your SUV or the SUN?

No point asking me, not being a climate scientist what I think doesn't matter, better of looking at the science..

https://scholar.google.com.br/schola...JBCb4QgQMIGTAA

[SailOar]

Originally Posted by Going Walkabout

China caught cheating ..... As reported in the New York Times, 2015

IT IS BURNING 17% MORE COAL PER YEAR MAKING THE REPORTS DATED 2013 GROSSLY UNDER REPORTING OF CHINA'S CO2 EMISSIONS

Given the reality of miss reporting of figures tabulated by Chinese officials these new upwardly revised figures may still be an UNDER reporting of Chinese pollution.


China Burns Much More Coal Than
Reported, Complicating Climate
Talks


点击查看本文中文版 Read in Chinese

By CHRIS BUCKLEY NOV. 3, 2015

BEIJING — China, the world’s leading emitter of greenhouse gases from
coal, has been burning up to 17 percent more coal a year than the
government previously disclosed, according to newly released data.
The finding could complicate the already difficult efforts to limit global
warming.

Even for a country of China’s size, the scale of the correction is
immense. The sharp upward revision in official figures means that
China has released much more carbon dioxide — almost a billion more
tons a year according to initial calculations — than previously
estimated.

The increase alone is greater than the whole German economy
emits annually from fossil fuels.

A more recent report...

China's coal peak hailed as turning point in climate change battle | The Guardian

25 July 2016

The global battle against climate change has passed a historic turning point with China’s huge coal burning finally having peaked, according to senior economists.

They say the moment may well be a significant milestone in the course of the Anthropocene, the current era in which human activity dominates the world’s environment.

China is the world’s biggest polluter and more than tripled its coal burning from 2000 to 2013, emitting billions of tonnes of climate-warming carbon dioxide. But its coal consumption peaked in 2014, much earlier than expected, and then began falling.

The economists argue in a new paper on Monday that this can now be seen as permanent trend, not a blip, due to major shifts in the Chinese economy and a crackdown on pollution.[...]

[SailOar]

Originally Posted by Going Walkabout

I started this post with a legitimate question. Based primarily on wether the climate in the near future is going to be warmer or cooler.

No one had come up with even a suggestion as to the answer of this basic question...

The consequences of climate change | NASA

...Scientists have high confidence that global temperatures will continue to rise for decades to come, largely due to greenhouse gases produced by human activities. The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), which includes more than 1,300 scientists from the United States and other countries, forecasts a temperature rise of 2.5 to 10 degrees Fahrenheit over the next century...

[SailOar]

Rising Ocean Temperatures Are Making Us Sick | HuffPo

...There’s been an unprecedented number of Vibrio cases in the U.S. and northern Europe in recent years, said the study, published in the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. The primary reason for this spike is climate change-fueled temperature increases in parts of the Atlantic Ocean, the researchers concluded...

[Reefmagnet]

Originally Posted by SailOar

The consequences of climate change | NASA

Every "consequence" quoted is dubious. For example...

Global sea level has risen by about 8 inches since reliable record keeping began in 1880. It is projected to rise another 1 to 4 feet by 2100. This is the result of added water from melting land ice and the expansion of seawater as it warms.

Anyone see the problem here?

Hint:

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

And with one simple Post we are reminded how those intent to deceive use Statistics...Thanks StuM.

Just like LE's bogus line about China putting on Scrubbers at twice the rate as the USA...ha ha ha. It's a worthless data point, but it fits the slant and agenda LE is pushing...so he throws it out there for the uneducated MMGWC to slurp up...halarious...but it's how Cults work on half truth and meaningless statistics used to scare believers from leaving the Cult.

(lose your reading glasses? I never said "twice the rate". Just a senior moment, I assume. )

Set us straight, then. Tell us exactly how/where I've screwed up.

This site is thick with worthless data points, and also your lack-of-points.

[GoingWalkabout]

Originally Posted by SailOar

A more recent report...

China's coal peak hailed as turning point in climate change battle | The Guardian

As with all Communist States you can not trust their reported figures. Reread how they were caught lying for years and falsifying their coal burning figures.

[GoingWalkabout]

Originally Posted by SailOar

The consequences of climate change | NASA

This is the best you can do. LOL. Let me correct your propaganda. SOME scientists (questionable to even call them now scientists since many advocates have left true science years ago).

It was reported today by scientists that this winter in the northern hemisphere will be one of the coldest on record. Enjoy the warm weather because your about to be plunged into deep deep cold.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by conachair

Does anyone still actually believe nothing is happening? Just business as usual for the planet..

Ah yes, Karl's fantasy "pause buster" adjusted GISTEMP dataset. It's the only one the alarmists ever quote these days.

And doncha just love the way they so confidently state temperatures in the 1800s to 1/100ths of a degree with nary an error bar in sight. (and yet their regular adjustments to more recent temperatures are frequently an order of magnitude greater than the precision of those century old variations)