Common Sense Answer to Pirates

[Jaden44]

Originally Posted by Laidback

This topic never appears to get any better - 244 posts and we end up with guns and more guns as the most common solution - and yet the topic title "Common Sense Answer to Pirates" fails to provide much in the way of common sense.

I agree with the comments of Laidback - post 244. I think its time to shut down this thread. A number of recent respondents have lost contact with the initial thread and the serious situation that exists for the "real circum-navigators" and cruisers in the Indian Ocean. Cruisers Forum generally carries some very intelligent threads and worthwhile discussion but this one has rambled completely out of control.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by xxuxx

"Common Sense Answer To Pirates" is an oxymoron!!
Pirates don't always have common sense.
Also one should be aware that different parts of the world react differently ie. Latin countries accept bribes while European countries do NOT.

Italy, Spain, Portugal are both Latin and European... I take it you mean S.America...
If your the guy encouraging folks to try bribery to get outa situations thats not valuable... thats stoopid... and insulting to the natives...
If I was one of those you tried to bribe... I'd look at the pittance your waving under my nose then the value of your boat... AND BUST YA...
My % from the stripping/auction would be more profitable... ROTFLMBO

[BillKov]

Originally Posted by AllezCat

I have never actually seen an attractive women on a mega yacht...
Mainly people polishing stuff.
The cute women around here are attending office parties on charter boats, Often elite banker types, and super hot back-office babes...

in any case really nice people around here - no matter their net-worth. Very helpful - offering to let me borrow tools etc...
Don't even lock the boat...

Uh - the way I learned it, locks do nothing more than keep honest people out. . . ANYBODY can bypass locks and most security systems. . . even if it's just with a convenient brick. . .

Common Sense is what will make a difference, in my opinion. . .

[AllezCat]

Originally Posted by BillKov

Uh - the way I learned it, locks do nothing more than keep honest people out. . . ANYBODY can bypass locks and most security systems. . . even if it's just with a convenient brick. . .

Common Sense is what will make a difference, in my opinion. . .

Not sure what you are talking about. Honest people desire to be pirates, but are thwarted by locks? How does that make any sense?
What is your common sense suggestion?
It is common for many to critique others, but never offer anything...

[BillKov]

Originally Posted by AllezCat

Not sure what you are talking about. Honest people desire to be pirates, but are thwarted by locks? How does that make any sense?
What is your common sense suggestion?
It is common for many to critique others, but never offer anything...

I knew the minute that I sent that it would be misunderstood. . . but it was too late.

Let me rephrase it. . .

Locks are no deterrent at all to someone who is fixated on having anything that you own. . . no ordinary lock or run of the mill security will prevent a determined thief. As a result, most locks keep honest people out of areas that you want private. . . the dishonest person will be able to break in/through, regardless. . .

Now, common sense. . . Common sense dictates that you don't walk down dark streets at night, away from population, with hundred dollar bills falling out of your pockets and expect to be safe. . .

There are areas that we will not want to sail/walk/visit because of the potential high percentages of crime . . . and there are common sense tactics that can be used in minor confrontations that will diffuse them without violence.

I hope that is easier. . .
B

[AllezCat]

Originally Posted by BillKov

I knew the minute that I sent that it would be misunderstood. . . but it was too late.

Let me rephrase it. . .

Locks are no deterrent at all to someone who is fixated on having anything that you own. . . no ordinary lock or run of the mill security will prevent a determined thief. As a result, most locks keep honest people out of areas that you want private. . . the dishonest person will be able to break in/through, regardless. . .

Now, common sense. . . Common sense dictates that you don't walk down dark streets at night, away from population, with hundred dollar bills falling out of your pockets and expect to be safe. . .

There are areas that we will not want to sail/walk/visit because of the potential high percentages of crime . . . and there are common sense tactics that can be used in minor confrontations that will diffuse them without violence.

I hope that is easier. . .
B

That's easier.
The problem is we cannot travel thru the region.
Someone proposed a solution: hide in the boat.
Seems stupid to me.
Some propose guns - owners and or military/hired gun escorts.
Others propose nothing - or anti gun but have numerous nefarious violent contraptions.
You haven't proposed a solution.
Oh, and you forgot don't run with scissors.

[BillKov]

Originally Posted by AllezCat

That's easier.
The problem is we cannot travel thru the region.
Someone proposed a solution: hide in the boat.
Seems stupid to me.
Some propose guns - owners and or military/hired gun escorts.
Others propose nothing - or anti gun but have numerous nefarious violent contraptions.
You haven't proposed a solution.
Oh, and you forgot don't run with scissors.

OH - I have a rather permanent solution. . . but it involves a larger boat than I have. . . the new Littoral Cruiser that the USN has run out in the last year. . . perfectly built for shallow water and armed to the teeth. . .

There are many deterrents that can be utilized but the most common sense solution is something that an old sensei told me a long time ago. . . to avoid trouble, simply do not knock on it's door.

"Never start a fight with an old man. . . he just might get bored and shoot you. . . "

Following seas. . .

B

[Jaden44]

I'm reluctant to add to this thread. Many wild ideas have been promoted by some forum members who promote an armed response if faced with a pirate attack by pirates with superior numbers and firepower.

For the members of the Forum who are seriously interested in off-shore cruising and wish to better educate themselves, may I suggest that the attached link will provide you with a wealth of information. The publication is downloadable in PDF format.

Äustralian Shipping Counter Piracy and Armed Robbery at Sea - Advisory Guidelines"
http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/tra...Guidelines.pdf

It's an Australian Government publication. A 65 page booklet that full of well presented and serious information. The information is applicable to all mariners of all nationalities.

Topics include;
P19 - If attacked by pirates
P20 - If boarded by pirates
P45 - [Action to be adopted by] Fishing and pleasure yachts
P53 - Carriage of firearms
P55 - Military action

The publication does not promote the carriage of firearms on yachts and does not promote an agressive armed response by the mariner to an attack. It does give advice on what to do when the military turn up (maybe).

[markpierce]

Common sense is to avoid areas where pirates operate. Same as avoiding the bad areas of many urban areas on land. If that can't be avoided, don't look like a victim. Make your boat look militaristic (but that's difficult with a sailboat).

[Jon Hacking]

Originally Posted by markpierce

Common sense is to avoid areas where pirates operate...

Mark, that's easy to say & do when you're sitting safely in California. Less useful out here. But another option is to go WHEN the pirates aren't there. If you look at the Piracy Tracking Map for the last several years, you'll see that there are no attacks in the Seychelles / Madagascar area between the end of May & about September. It's too rough then for the pirates to operate their open attack boats - but not for us cruisers. This gives almost 3 months where one can safely get around the top of Madagascar (usually from the Maldives or Chagos). From there it's easy to go around South Africa.

Not sure why cruisers are so hesitant to go around the Cape of Good Hope. There are weather concerns, of course, but they're pretty routine. You're in a strong current so you don't want to run into a front coming up from Cape Town. But that's pretty easy, & there are good weather nets to help. And the South African game-parks are wonderful!

[markpierce]

You're right, Jon. One needs to consider location and time. Plenty of urban areas are relatively safe during the day, but dangerous at night. Like I said ...

[Katiusha]

Not sure if this link has already been posted somewhere: http://www.odin.tc/mbbs22/index.asp, but it's a maritime bulletin tracking various [shipping companies] cases, including piracy. I find it a very interesting read (always refreshing to know that big ships also ground and in much simpler conditions than... umm... some). But also they are tracking all pirate attacks, in progress and completed.

Another wealth of information is in Articles section where the owner of the site talks about various defence methods and shipping company organization methods. One of the methods he is against is the safe towers providing the arguments that it's safe only in the short term and only if pirates do not decide to smoke out the entire crew using air intake vents. It's a new point of view that's not sounded much.

I am not affiliated with this site in any way (except that I've been reading it for some time now).

Regarding the armed response: did you know that some companies have started organizing pirate shooting tours around the world? You pay big money, you get big guns, you get a decoy boat, you go shoot people. I don't say it's good, I don't say it's bad. I say that such tourist sector exists.

[xxuxx]

Originally Posted by Jaden44

I'm reluctant to add to this thread. Many wild ideas have been promoted by some forum members who promote an armed response if faced with a pirate attack by pirates with superior numbers and firepower.

Here we go......trying to wind me up. First of all pirates come in all shapes and sizes and are NOT always in superior numbers and firepower. Sometimes they come with machetes. Sometimes they come to rob. Sometimes they come to rob and kill. It's nice to have a weapon onboard.
Period!!

[Laidback]

Originally Posted by xxuxx

Here we go......trying to wind me up. First of all pirates come in all shapes and sizes and are NOT always in superior numbers and firepower. Sometimes they come with machetes. Sometimes they come to rob. Sometimes they come to rob and kill. It's nice to have a weapon onboard.
Period!!

In all probability not possible to wind a person up. Each having their own ideas.
The fact is that the pirates that are active in the Gulf of Aden, the Arabian Sea and the North West Indian Ocean do not come in all shapes and sizes. The standard package contains 3/4 20ft Skiffs capable of 25 knots, AK47 assault rifles, Rocket Propelled Grenades. No Machetes.

[xxuxx]

Originally Posted by Laidback

In all probability not possible to wind a person up. Each having their own ideas.
The fact is that the pirates that are active in the Gulf of Aden, the Arabian Sea and the North West Indian Ocean do not come in all shapes and sizes. The standard package contains 3/4 20ft Skiffs capable of 25 knots, AK47 assault rifles, Rocket Propelled Grenades. No Machetes.

LOL.....the fact really is you are shaping your argumment to suit your criteria. Dude, I think we all can agree that that is the case in the Gulf and the NW Indian ocean but I was referring to the shapes and sizes in central and south america and in the pacific. When one is alone or with 2-3 crew in the middle of nowhere.....it sure is nice to have that GUN!!