Cruisers Forum
 


Closed Thread
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 07-12-2010, 12:48   #76
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Panama City, Panama
Boat: Hunter 42 Passage
Posts: 318
Send a message via Skype™ to Panamajames
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjones1349 View Post
I think that all the facts should be known before we judge. Why was the daughter left to defend the ship with a flare gun in a remote anchorage and suceed. This story has many unanswered questions.
Will we ever know considering the remote location and the nature of the relationships in the family?
Will we ever know what happened? Do thugs really go looking in desolate anchorages? I hope the crime sceen is recovered and scrutinzed. This just sounds weird.

I am not sure how she defended herself with a flare gun. Guys with guns are not afraid of flare guns and a young girl. These punks are cowards and will shoot without remorse. There are still parts of this story to be told and I would like to hear it. Thanks God the girls got away. A miracle I believe.
__________________
Sailing is 80% boredom and 20% sheer terror so FIRSTMATE then go sailing. Life is a journey, not a destination.
Panamajames is offline  
Old 07-12-2010, 13:41   #77
Registered User
 
Fishman_Tx's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Beeville, Tx.
Boat: 1969 Morgan 40 Cruising Ketch "Lady Catherine II", 1973 Bristol 34 - "Our Baby"(RIP), Catalina 22
Posts: 876
Images: 12
Honestly folks,

One cannot second guess any situation where violent attack is concerned. Too many variables to consider. No single action can determine the outcome with so many variables at play. So no one can say "this or that may have made the difference". After-the-fact is too late. If ThugA had been holding the gun on the Man instead of ThugB, the outcome may have been different. "If the Man had been standing 2 feet to the left he could have"...etc,etc. Keeping a watch while on the hook may have helped. We can only mourn the losses and be better prepared ourselves for this kind of situation should it occur. Even passive and cooperative you may still be shot or end up in deep water with an anchor tied to your feet. No one knows what will happen and no one can be completely prepared for when/if it does. The armed/unarmed debate is a matter of personal choice and should not be argued at all. For me it's armed, for you it may be unarmed. If your alive AFTER the fact, that's all that matters. HOW you got to that point is irrelevant. Honestly, if it's a choice of my life or holes in the boat, damn the boat.

But the best thing to do is to avoid the trouble areas in the first place. Fore-warned is fore-armed. Going anyway is a fools errand unless you absolutely have to be there.

For what it's worth; R.I.P. Milan Egrmajer. "May the angels sing ye to rest."

Fish
__________________
Fish
"Behind every great man there is a woman, rolling her eyes."
But not for long! Now she's gone!
and peace and tranquility reign forever!
1969 Morgan 40 Cruising Ketch
Fishman_Tx is offline  
Old 07-12-2010, 13:55   #78
Registered User
 
captainKJ's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: 3rd wave passed the sea wall
Boat: private yacht always moving
Posts: 1,388
Why turn this into a debate about what happened or armed or unarmed,,, Lets not disrespect the person or his family in the forum,,

If this happened to you or to one of your loved ones would you want people on this fourm to debate what they think happened or what you should have done??

I think not,,

A person lost his life due to a tragic situation

I think that all the facts should be known before we judge. Why was the daughter left to defend the ship with a flare gun in a remote anchorage and suceed. This story has many unanswered questions.

WHO THE **__ ARE YOU TO JUDGE,
a person dies and you are going to judge him or the decisions he made,,, if this happened to you would you want your family reading what you posted.

Please lock this thread and lets not disrespect the sailor or his family


captainkj
captainKJ is offline  
Old 07-12-2010, 14:13   #79
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Panama City, Panama
Boat: Hunter 42 Passage
Posts: 318
Send a message via Skype™ to Panamajames
I don't think we are judging, we are learning from these posts. We are all searching for answers to this horrible crime and some of us are venting our frustrations to the way the path this world of ours is on. It does not look if you read the news frequently. I hope this thread saves someones live some day. Please do not close it.
__________________
Sailing is 80% boredom and 20% sheer terror so FIRSTMATE then go sailing. Life is a journey, not a destination.
Panamajames is offline  
Old 07-12-2010, 14:14   #80
Registered User
 
Fishman_Tx's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Beeville, Tx.
Boat: 1969 Morgan 40 Cruising Ketch "Lady Catherine II", 1973 Bristol 34 - "Our Baby"(RIP), Catalina 22
Posts: 876
Images: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by captainKJ View Post
Why turn this into a debate about what happened or armed or unarmed,,, Lets not disrespect the person or his family in the forum,,

If this happened to you or to one of your loved ones would you want people on this fourm to debate what they think happened or what you should have done??

I think not,,

A person lost his life due to a tragic situation

I think that all the facts should be known before we judge. Why was the daughter left to defend the ship with a flare gun in a remote anchorage and suceed. This story has many unanswered questions.

WHO THE **__ ARE YOU TO JUDGE,
a person dies and you are going to judge him or the decisions he made,,, if this happened to you would you want your family reading what you posted.

Please lock this thread and lets not disrespect the sailor or his family


captainkj
Amen, Cap'n, but also.......

James,
The answer is that there is no answer. A random act of violence on the innocent resulting in tragedy. How the lady survived is irrelevant to the fact that she did survive. How did you survive even though you were prepared? It happened so fast you had no time. Circumstances and a miracle allowed you to survive.
Can't second guess that.

The best way to stay out of trouble is not going near it at all.
__________________
Fish
"Behind every great man there is a woman, rolling her eyes."
But not for long! Now she's gone!
and peace and tranquility reign forever!
1969 Morgan 40 Cruising Ketch
Fishman_Tx is offline  
Old 07-12-2010, 14:15   #81
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Erie Canal between Rochester & Buffalo
Boat: 1970 23' O'day pop-top
Posts: 471
Sorry Dude. People claim they learn a lot from these things.
I don't get it either but the administrators agree that this stuff is valuable.
A serious character flaw to this forum.
kenny chaos is offline  
Old 07-12-2010, 14:31   #82
Registered User
 
captainKJ's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: 3rd wave passed the sea wall
Boat: private yacht always moving
Posts: 1,388
Quote:
Originally Posted by Panamajames View Post
I don't think we are judging, we are learning from these posts. We are all searching for answers to this horrible crime and some of us are venting our frustrations to the way the path this world of ours is on. It does not look if you read the news frequently. I hope this thread saves someones live some day. Please do not close it.
I read the new all the time,,, will be cruising myself someday for many years, planning around the world for 10 years if not more soon. everytime someone is robbed, shot or other it does allow us all to learn from it but we can learn and be prepared WITHOUT judging or disrespecting the people involved. I have read this thread from the beginning several times since it was posted and believe it is getting OFF topic and disrespectful to the dead, his family and the survivor.

I myself have lost friends in Saint Marteen on a meag yacht a couple of years ago due to a robbery in front of his wife and 10 year old daughter,,, had another friend pass away with the owners onboard in palm beach,,,

both situations were written up on different fourms that had lasting effect to all involved.

seeing this first hand, what people post may be well meaning but can be taken VERY differently by the people involved
captainKJ is offline  
Old 07-12-2010, 15:27   #83
Registered User
 
Fishman_Tx's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Beeville, Tx.
Boat: 1969 Morgan 40 Cruising Ketch "Lady Catherine II", 1973 Bristol 34 - "Our Baby"(RIP), Catalina 22
Posts: 876
Images: 12
True! "Understanding" is subjective. But if allowed to, we know down which road this will eventually lead. The infamous "armed vs unarmed debate". What all need to remember is that no matter which choice you make, the circumstances of "the event" will dictate the outcome. Armed or not.

I would suggest that the lady probably hid in a forward locker until one of the Thugs opened it and found himself face-to-face with a flare gun "off the probiscus bow". When they ran, she fired, and they kept running.

The effect of surprise, whether or not your armed can have a strong effect on the cowardly. It can also get you shot. See what I mean? In a crisis situation, EVERYTHING is determined by actions and reactions. What needs to be LEARNED is how to react while IN the crisis situation. Armed or unarmed, doesn't matter. This requires training to be effective. Without it, you're dependant on miracles and/or blind luck! Take crisis management and self-defense courses, they're available. THEN you are best prepared for what may come.

"I've said m'piece and counted to 3.."
Oh Brother Where Art Thou
__________________
Fish
"Behind every great man there is a woman, rolling her eyes."
But not for long! Now she's gone!
and peace and tranquility reign forever!
1969 Morgan 40 Cruising Ketch
Fishman_Tx is offline  
Old 07-12-2010, 20:56   #84
cruiser

Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,167
Aluminium hatches make a boat a lot harder to break into, especialy if the ports are not too big.
A flare pistol is useless as a weapon. A lady in Comox tried to commit suicide with one. Bounced off her tits at point blank rage, and bounced around the cabin, setting the boat on fire. Only slightly burned her tits.
Those big hand held rocket flares have a lot more power.
Sadly, this death may be the result of people buying the line that "laws which result in only criminals having guns, make us safer."
The daughter was 24 years old.
Brent Swain is offline  
Old 07-12-2010, 23:55   #85
Moderator Emeritus
 
Boracay's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Sunshine Coast, Qld, Australia
Boat: CyberYacht 43
Posts: 5,174
Images: 19
Drug shipment related?

Is it possible that drugs are being transshipped through the area?

It's hard to believe that four men would gain enough from a yacht to make it worth while to shoot four times. Even in Honduras the police would have to take some action and the evidence (what was taken) would be hard to hide.

Every person in the nearby communities would have to know who the men were and where they lived.

If it was drug shipment related then the responsible organizations may take more than a passing interest.
Boracay is offline  
Old 09-12-2010, 06:15   #86
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boracay View Post
It's hard to believe that four men would gain enough from a yacht to make it worth while to shoot four times. Even in Honduras the police would have to take some action and the evidence (what was taken) would be hard to hide.
Sorry but you need to understand that in central America life is TOUGH for a large percentage of the population.

The wage for a schoolteacher will be around $200 US a month. Many, many people live a life of subsistence fishing or farming. Malnutrition is common. Add to this the fact that Honduras has been in political turmoil and it quickly becomes apparent that the haul from even the smallest yacht will have a significant impact on the life of the thief.

A small outboard engine can change the lives of a family.

I have anchored in El Diamente on a number of occasions. It is a well sheltered, beautiful but VERY isolated place. I have rarely seen another boat there.

The french boat that was boarded previous to the attack on Adena emphasized their actions of no resistance. They felt very strongly that this saved their lives.
annk is offline  
Old 09-12-2010, 06:15   #87
Registered User
 
JamuJoe's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Durango, CO
Boat: Leopard 42 - JAMU
Posts: 196
Images: 13
Boracay,
Of course drugs move through the area, but these incidents are not about drugs, at least not by cruisers involved with drugs. It is completely understandable that local robbers would target a yacht in a remote anchorage, and kill a resisting victim. Central America is very different from Australia. The people are very poor, law enforcement is practically non-existent, and visiting yachts represent wealth. The temptation is there, the guns are there and cruisers are generally aware of the risk.
__________________
Safe Sailing,
JamuJoe - Durango, CO
S/V JAMU - Western Caribbean
JamuJoe is offline  
Old 09-12-2010, 06:39   #88
Registered User
 
Captain Bill's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Punta Gorda, Fl
Boat: Endeavourcat Sailcat 44
Posts: 3,173
Has anyone actually seen a first hand account from the daughter saying that the father resisted the attack? I haven't. It seems to me that the report of resistance probably has as much credibility as the daughter being 13. If anyone's seen a quote from the daughter reported anywhere saying the father resisted, could they point us to it?
Captain Bill is offline  
Old 09-12-2010, 07:25   #89
Senior Cruiser
 
GordMay's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 49,127
Images: 241
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bill View Post
Has anyone actually seen a first hand account from the daughter ...
Not yet.

“Margaret Wilson can wait to hear the details of her granddaughter's escape from her father's yacht after he was gunned down by pirates in waters along the northern coast of Honduras...
... The grandmother said family members aren't pressing Myda for details of the nightmare because her emotions are too raw right now...”


Here ➥ 'She hasn't even talked to us' - The North Bay Nugget - Ontario, CA

Below: Myda in happier times
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	MydaEgrmajer.jpg
Views:	208
Size:	80.0 KB
ID:	21816  
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is online now  
Old 09-12-2010, 07:42   #90
Registered User
 
Captain Bill's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Punta Gorda, Fl
Boat: Endeavourcat Sailcat 44
Posts: 3,173
Thanks Gord, truely a tragic situation for the family. I hope the young lady recovers from her ordeal with time.
Captain Bill is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
US Sailor Detained by Canadian Border Officials Solitude Cruising News & Events 2 09-03-2010 13:22
Yacht Chef Murdered in Puerto Rico ronbo1 Cruising News & Events 22 02-04-2009 16:18
Canadian buying canadian boat in Florida Rastarea Rules of the Road, Regulations & Red Tape 7 08-02-2009 09:15
Buyiing a Canadian-Registered Sailboat from Another Canadian in Guatemala squarehead General Sailing Forum 2 14-01-2008 05:47
Hello from a Canadian sailor/cruiser canucksailor Meets & Greets 1 16-02-2005 18:16

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:58.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.