Boating Under The Influence??

[Talk Story]

Any thoughts on how medical marijuana factors into this discussion - lets just assume you are approached by a state or local authority - asking for a friend.

[redneckrob]

Originally Posted by boatman61

LOL.... did a Pan Pan a few years back... 3 miles out of Beaufort Inlet when motor failed and I ran out of filters due to crap fuel... tide running fast and drifting me towards Lookout Point and no wind...
(Thats the problem with coming from a country where there's instant response... you grow to expect some answer with advice or help).
As NC sailors know there's a large CG station on the S point of the inlet and a big military base... no answer on CH16/14/12.... shortly after 3 big ribs came roaring toward the inlet so I flagged them down...
Military types with Chem warfare gear and armed to the teeth but would not come closer than hailing distance... they would not take a line.. but did say they'd send help.
1 hr later after I'd anchored in shallowing waters another rib appeared and wanted $300 for the tow back to Taylors Creek...
But thats another story...
Suffice it to say that from what I've seen of the CG, Homeland Security and LE on the waters.. so far its only been the Sheriff of Oriental telling me I'd overstayed on the Town Dock....

If you want help you call Mayday. The Coast Guard doesn't respond to a Pan Pan call if you're not asking for assistance or specifically call them. "Pan-pan is the international urgency call indicating that someone aboard a boat is declaring an urgent situation that is not an immediate threat to either the vessel or the people on board." And the Coast Guard is legally prohibited from competing with private tow companies in cases where there is no danger to life or property. Therefore, your apparent expectation that they should have helped you was the only error that happened in your situation.

In the future, if you want the Coast Guard to respond to your radio call, either call a Mayday or call the Coast Guard directly. If you or your vessel aren't in immediate danger, be prepared to pay a commercial towing service to help you. That's simply the law that at least all federal agencies operate under. You don't like the law, complain about the incompetence of your legislator not about the Coast Guard and Navy crews following that law.

[Nauticus]

Again the Canadians score. Up here weed is legal and treated the same as alcohol. Bed, stove and head is all you need at anchor. It's great to be a Canadian

[coriobay]

In Australia you can be fined at anchor, however you can get be over thee limit
if you are on a registered mooring or dock, reason is, if your anchor drags or lets go the captain is responsible for the vessel and must be sober,

[Captain Bill]

The cause of the OPs problem is a difference in the Florida definition of underway and the US/colregs definition. The Florida definition of underway includes a vessel at anchor. The federal definition does not. The Coasties aren't going to arrest you for drinking at anchor, the FWC will. In Florida if you are not tied to a dock or the shoreline you are underway. I guess one possible solution is to run a long line up to the shore and tie it to something. If the shore starts dragging you have bigger problems than the FWC. Laws vary depending on the state.

[Mike OReilly]

Fun... a thread twice resurrected from the dead.

As Nauticus says, in Canada it is legal to drink booze, or smoke weed, while anchored. Legally, being anchored is equivalent to being tied to a dock or hooked to a fixed mooring.

Obviously it is unwise to get shyte-faced any time you're on a boat. But once the anchor is securely down, and no serious weather is expected, I have no qualms quaffing a few cold ones, or a couple glasses of wine.

I was surprised to learn that in some US states it is illegal to drink at anchor.

[Dsanduril]

So I’m curious to see a citation of “underway” including at anchor. It doesn’t show up on the definitions of Florida 327.02 at all. And FWC’s boating website says:

A child under the age of 6 must wear a USCG-approved Type I, II or III personal flotation device while onboard a vessel under 26 feet in length while the vessel is underway. "Underway" is defined as anytime except when the vessel is anchored, moored, made fast to the shore or aground.
FWC website source

Seems like it would be hard to argue one definition of underway for PFDs and a different one for BUIs in the same chapter of the code?

327.35 Boating under the influence; penalties; “designated drivers.”—
(1) A person is guilty of the offense of boating under the influence and is subject to punishment as provided in subsection (2) if the person is operating a vessel within this state and:

327.02 (33) “Operate” means to be in charge of, in command of, or in actual physical control of a vessel upon the waters of this state, to exercise control over or to have responsibility for a vessel’s navigation or safety while the vessel is underway upon the waters of this state, or to control or steer a vessel being towed by another vessel upon the waters of the state.

[carstenb]

Just to throw another angle on this into the fray. The Colregs do actually require any vessel (even at anchor) to maintain a watch at all times. If you have been drinking then you are unable to stand watch.

So I'm not sure why you can get a fine for being drunk - but you certainly could be charged for not keeping an adequate watch.


https://seamanship.ie/col-regs-rule-...out-explained/

Rule 5
Look-out
Every vessel shall at all times maintain a proper look-out by sight and hearing as well as by all available means appropriate in the prevailing circumstances and conditions so as to make a full appraisal of the situation and of the risk of collision.


Anchor watch
The duty to keep a proper look-out applies also when a vessel is at
anchor, especially if there is a strong tide running, or if other vessels
are likely to be passing by. Most importantly, a ‘proper look-out’ means one, which takes in the whole 360-degree panorama. Crew assisting the OOW should regularly report what they are observing.

[requiem]

Originally Posted by Dsanduril

Seems like it would be hard to argue one definition of underway for PFDs and a different one for BUIs in the same chapter of the code?

Well, as you have made the common sense argument for the one, I guess I'll take on the challenge of the other....

First, section 327.50 which covers lights, PFDs, etc. says:

For the purpose of this section, “underway” means at all times except when a vessel is anchored, moored, made fast to the shore, or aground.

Clearly if it was intended to apply more broadly the definition would have been placed up front in the chapter's general definitions section 327.02, rather than being restricted to "for the purpose of this section".

Next, reviewing the 327.02 definitions, we have:

(33) “Operate” means to be in charge of, in command of, or in actual physical control of a vessel upon the waters of this state, to exercise control over or to have responsibility for a vessel’s navigation or safety while the vessel is underway upon the waters of this state, or to control or steer a vessel being towed by another vessel upon the waters of the state.

This is clearly a three-part list, any one of the three being sufficient to count as operating: (1), being in charge/command/control when 'upon the waters', (2) control/responsibility for navigation/safety when underway 'upon the waters', and finally (3) controlling/steering a vessel under tow 'upon the waters'. Thus, even if the boat isn't considered underway, that element was only attached to the second element of the list and the 'captain' still has responsibility.

Perhaps someone else can dig up actual precedent on the matter.

[B23iL23]

Meanwhile in Ireland...

So two men take their boat out on the Liffey (it's a river) and get into the shipping lane, cause a nuisance and so on.

They are caught by police and arrested. They can't be breathalysed as they are not driving a car on a public road, no alcohol found on board (Questioned about CCTV showing him drinking from bottles, he denied they contained beer and claimed they were a foreign brand of glass bottled water). Police basically used their judgement that they were "as drunk as skunks".

They were not charged under colregs as it wouldn't stick - instead they were charged under the Irish Maritime safety act which prohibits sailing or operating a vessel while intoxicated and engaging in threatening and abusive behaviour. Sometimes local laws trump (oops shouldn't use that word! ) colregs.

They both got 3 months in jail each plus a fine. The boat was seized and destroyed - We don't do things by half measures(!) here in Ireland!

it's a fun read.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-30978779.html

[Dsanduril]

(1), being in charge/command/control when 'upon the waters’

The simple solution to this one when at anchor - don’t drink alone. “He’s in charge officer.” “No officer, she’s in charge”. “No one was in charge, we’re squatters (and we were drunk, couldn’t possibly be in charge)”. When there’s someone behind the helm pretty easy to define the in-charge party (although not a slam dunk). At anchor?

Would like to see the precedent myself. Where’s the probable cause? And how do you get around a definition contained in another section? If you’re going to have two definitions under law then they both need to be spelled out, otherwise you get the common definition.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by carstenb

Just to throw another angle on this into the fray. The Colregs do actually require any vessel (even at anchor) to maintain a watch at all times. If you have been drinking then you are unable to stand watch.

So I'm not sure why you can get a fine for being drunk - but you certainly could be charged for not keeping an adequate watch.

I know we're just playing legaleese games here carstenb, so I'm not trying to be too serious, but do the colregs define what is "being drunk"?

People can drink without being drunk. I can have a few beers or glasses of wine over an evening, and still be able to maintain an adequate anchor watch. So drinking, in itself, surely is not the measure.

Most jurisdictions define it as a blood-alcohol concentration, but I don't think the Colregs do. And as I said, in Canada at least, being anchored is the equivalent to be tied to a dock. And there is no law against "being drunk" on shore.

The interesting question for me would be, what happens if your anchor lets go, or even starts dragging? You would then be underway, and Canadian law is clear you cannot be legally impaired while underway.

[Jammer]

Federal law makes operating a vessel under the influence of alcohol a crime if the vessel is in U.S. waters or is U.S. flagged. There is no implied consent or BAC limit.


I doubt if the provision is often used.



Curiously, Minnesota statute has an exemption to the BWI laws for boats that are under sail or being rowed, as well as boats at anchor.

[Bill Seal]

If a boat is at anchor with nobody aboard, who is maintaining the anchor watch? Is it legal to leave an unoccupied vessel at anchor?
Inquiring minds want to know.

[carstenb]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

I know we're just playing legaleese games here carstenb, so I'm not trying to be too serious, but do the colregs define what is "being drunk"?

People can drink without being drunk. I can have a few beers or glasses of wine over an evening, and still be able to maintain an adequate anchor watch. So drinking, in itself, surely is not the measure.

Most jurisdictions define it as a blood-alcohol concentration, but I don't think the Colregs do. And as I said, in Canada at least, being anchored is the equivalent to be tied to a dock. And there is no law against "being drunk" on shore.

The interesting question for me would be, what happens if your anchor lets go, or even starts dragging? You would then be underway, and Canadian law is clear you cannot be legally impaired while underway.

Well, I've not fond anything in the colregs that places a limit on how much you can drink - the same could be true for how long to can stay awake and still keep watch. the regs simply say "Adequate".

Up to you and the authority you are trying to convince I guess.