Belgian customs at it again

[PhiSig1071]

Originally Posted by K_V_B

The law is that you are not allowed to red diesel for propulsion. It's that simple.

No, you are not allowed untaxed diesel, no matter the color.

[K_V_B]

Originally Posted by PhiSig1071

No, you are not allowed untaxed diesel, no matter the color.

Semantics.

Red diesel is untaxed. If someone is selling you red diesel and making you pay taxes on it then you are being defrauded by that person.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by K_V_B

Semantics.

Red diesel is untaxed. If someone is selling you red diesel and making you pay taxes on it then you are being defrauded by that person.

The UK Government makes me pay tax on the 60% I use for propulsion at a higher rate to the tax on the 40% used for heating. Think but can't be certain that the heating element tax is 5%.

[PhiSig1071]

Originally Posted by K_V_B

Semantics.

Red diesel is untaxed. If someone is selling you red diesel and making you pay taxes on it then you are being defrauded by that person.

Red Diesel is only untaxed if you don't pay the tax on it. If you pay the tax in full, and have the receipts to prove it, it's no longer untaxed diesel, regardless of the color.

[Vipe6]

I'm Belgian and when I was in Dover last year I got my diesel in jerry-cans from the gas station across the street just because of this reason. I deal with Belgian customs people professionally on a regular basis and that's why I didn't want to take a risk. It takes forever to get rid of the red dye.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by conachair

Looks like they might have backed down...

Belgium - Page 2

"We just got the confirmation of our Belgium government that, from now on, there will be no control anymore towards red Diesel for sailors. In September, there will be a European conference, where the European ministers will take a common position on this matter."
Read more at Belgium - Page 2

It makes sense a common position regarding EU but that common position may well be not tolerating red diesel (lower taxed diesel) on pleasure boats in any EU country, as the law states.

[Tomahawk]

Originally Posted by K_V_B

Semantics.

Red diesel is untaxed. If someone is selling you red diesel and making you pay taxes on it then you are being defrauded by that person.

I last filled up at Hammond Port Services in Dover. They supply pilot boats and a number of other port activities. I paid vat on the fuel I bought and obtained a receipt.

[K_V_B]

Originally Posted by PhiSig1071

Red Diesel is only untaxed if you don't pay the tax on it. If you pay the tax in full, and have the receipts to prove it, it's no longer untaxed diesel, regardless of the color.

The law says that you cannot have marked diesel in a tank that is connected to a propulsion engine. Whether you can show invoices is immaterial.

[K_V_B]

Originally Posted by Pete7

The UK Government makes me pay tax on the 60% I use for propulsion at a higher rate to the tax on the 40% used for heating. Think but can't be certain that the heating element tax is 5%.

All other governments make you pay tax on the whole tank. If you want to use untaxed diesel for heating you must put it in a separate tank.

[PhiSig1071]

Originally Posted by K_V_B

The law says that you cannot have marked diesel in a tank that is connected to a propulsion engine. Whether you can show invoices is immaterial.

Apparently "Swiss Customs" would be at it again, too.

What do you think the purpose of the law is? What is it trying to accomplish? Is it trying to prevent people from using untaxed diesel? Or "marked" diesel?

If I was able to buy "unmarked" diesel, without paying any taxes on it, would that be ok?

[alex_sauvage]

Originally Posted by K_V_B

The law says that you cannot have marked diesel in a tank that is connected to a propulsion engine. Whether you can show invoices is immaterial.

Do you have an actual quote which says so? There is number of ways how red dye can end up in your tank: the boat sailed from USA, someone put red dye in your tank as a prank...or you are British and no other fuel is available. Bottom line: yes one has to pay taxes, but the dye is not the only way to prove it

[estarzinger]

Originally Posted by K_V_B

The law says that you cannot have marked diesel in a tank that is connected to a propulsion engine. Whether you can show invoices is immaterial.

This is false . . . . http://www.rya.org.uk/SiteCollection...ns30Sept08.pdf

[Sailmonkey]

Hypothetical....what happens to a US flagged boat with a tank full of red fuel when the check in?

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Polux

It makes sense a common position regarding EU but that common position may well be not tolerating red diesel (lower taxed diesel) on pleasure boats in any EU country, as the law states.

One more time -- red diesel is not necessarily untaxed nor even "lower taxed".

The UK has the highest taxes on diesel fuel of any EU country.

My red diesel bought at Cowes Fuel Barge has more taxes in it than any white diesel you can buy in Belgium or in any other EU country.

You continue to miss the point -- that the persecution in Belgium had nothing to do with taxes.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Sailmonkey

Hypothetical....what happens to a US flagged boat with a tank full of red fuel when the check in?

One large U.S. motor yacht got a gargantuan fine in Germany some years ago -- tens of thousands of euros. There were protests (as you can imagine), and think the Germans backed down in the end, but it was ugly.