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Old 23-07-2017, 09:05   #76
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Re: Belgian customs at it again

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Originally Posted by Polux View Post
I find arrogant to say that my understanding of the facts is erroneous and what you say only reinforces my point, that is also the one of the Belgian government. UK boaters cannot have paid all the tax required on fuel required by EC if EC considers they are not going by the book and evading taxs on diesel for pleasure boats.

It seems to me that the Belgians simply apply the law since on EC waters a boat cannot sail with red fuel since red fuel had not paid all the taxs required. The other countries may look other way, choosing not to have troubles with it, at least for now. Strictly speaking the Belgians go for the book.

Regarding the impossibility of a boat going out of UK not abiding by EC law, as it is regarded in all other countries, I don't see a problem. Just put car taxed diesel on your boat and show the invoice showing that the diesel was fully taxed.
But they're not evading the tax. They're paying it, and have receipts to prove it, and they're still getting fined, just because of the dye in the fuel. It's not practical for them to buy "car taxed diesel" when marinas don't sell it, and even if they did decide to buy diesel at a gas station and schlep it back to the boat one Jerry can at a time, if they have any residual red dye in their tanks Belgium will fine them anyway.
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Old 23-07-2017, 11:28   #77
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Re: Belgian customs at it again

It seems that ths diesel thing is typical of the reasons that brought about
BrExit. The EU exists to guarantee a bunch of bureaucrats jobs to harass everyone else.
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Old 23-07-2017, 11:56   #78
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Re: Belgian customs at it again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polux View Post
I find arrogant to say that my understanding of the facts is erroneous and what you say only reinforces my point, that is also the one of the Belgian government. UK boaters cannot have paid all the tax required on fuel required by EC if EC considers they are not going by the book and evading taxs on diesel for pleasure boats.

It seems to me that the Belgians simply apply the law since on EC waters a boat cannot sail with red fuel since red fuel had not paid all the taxs required. The other countries may look other way, choosing not to have troubles with it, at least for now. Strictly speaking the Belgians go for the book.

Regarding the impossibility of a boat going out of UK not abiding by EC law, as it is regarded in all other countries, I don't see a problem. Just put car taxed diesel on your boat and show the invoice showing that the diesel was fully taxed.
Sheez, Polux, before rushing off to declare some statement to be arrogant, you might at least read it first!

You obviously didn't read my post, and those of others, and you continue to be totally confused about the facts.

Let me say it very simply -- the color of the fuel in the UK has nothing to do with whether or not tax has been paid on it. Capisco? Can you grasp this concept? You say that the fact that the fuel is red means no tax was paid on it -- WRONG.

The UK has a different regime from the rest of Europe -- ALL marine fuel, whether or not tax has been paid on it, is colored red.

You cannot buy uncolored marine diesel fuel except perhaps in one place (Ramsgate) along the 13,000 miles of the UK coastline. Capisco?

UK sailors avoid problems everywhere in Europe by voluntarily paying 100% duty on the fuel in their tanks (although they are not required by UK law to pay duty on the part used for heating or power generation), and by presenting the documents proving this to the authorities. All European countries accept this except Belgium, who don't care whether or not tax is paid.

Now do you get it?
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Old 23-07-2017, 13:30   #79
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Re: Belgian customs at it again

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Originally Posted by roverhi View Post
It seems that ths diesel thing is typical of the reasons that brought about
BrExit. ..
I agree with you here. One of the reasons for EC is to have common European concepts, regarding communitary legislation on many subjects (made by the EC parliament in form of directives), including boats (RCD), fuel taxes and many other subjects.

The subject regarding lighter tax on diesel for pleasure boats is not the only subject where UK had tried to avoid or avoid directives from the EC parliament and those divergences are on the base of the Brexit.

In the end I think it will be good for EC and for UK. UK can do what he wants and EC can work better in what regards future EC common legislation without all the trouble UK has being done regarding their approval and implementation. After all UK population is only about 10% of the population of EC.
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Old 23-07-2017, 23:51   #80
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Re: Belgian customs at it again

My solution is simple... I am not going anywhere near Belgium.

But I am sending emails to all the clubs and restaurants that I would have visited saying why I am not visiting them.. One thing that is certain is that any income the customs could but won't get out of me is more than offset by the spending I won't be doing in their country. If everyone also does the same, someone may wake up and smell the coffee.
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Old 24-07-2017, 02:32   #81
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Re: Belgian customs at it again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polux View Post
I agree with you here. One of the reasons for EC is to have common European concepts, regarding communitary legislation on many subjects (made by the EC parliament in form of directives), including boats (RCD), fuel taxes and many other subjects.

The subject regarding lighter tax on diesel for pleasure boats is not the only subject where UK had tried to avoid or avoid directives from the EC parliament and those divergences are on the base of the Brexit.

In the end I think it will be good for EC and for UK. UK can do what he wants and EC can work better in what regards future EC common legislation without all the trouble UK has being done regarding their approval and implementation. After all UK population is only about 10% of the population of EC.
Gosh Polux. Your grasp of how the EC works is a little off.
Each country has the right to question a central ruling. You are pretty anti UK as I can see.

Recently, the EU ruled that in Spain, that on restaurant tables must be NEW unopened bottle of Olive oil for each new customer. Spain has a history of filling the olive oil containers with locally produced oil which each restaurant thinks is the 'best' and adds to the reputation of the restaurant.

Spain refused to comply. The ruling was dropped.

As for centralised funding... each country has the right to question and the right to implement taxation within a framework. You forget that Britain is the second largest contributor to the EU in payments. For all this compliance and financial aid, Britain was told to take one million refugees..THAT is the reason for Brexit, not taxation.

I can tell you directly that the EU has become overly authoritarian and dictatorial in its 'request's from member states. Had they stuck to the central issues of free trade and cross border unity instead of interfering with every member countrys traditions and right to self rule based on tradition and heritage, it would be a wonderful thing.

Britain did not join the monetary equality simply because when a nation is in trouble, they can float currency on the international market up or down to ease the problem. When the Euro gets in trouble, it affects all member countries and each country has no where to go to relieve the financial pressure. Poor member states can go bankrupt.

The EU has not been good for Greece or Italy or Spain and a few other countries. Time will show who will leave the current version of the EU. I also find it strange that the Bank behind the funding of the EU is the Federal Reserve. That said, the Federal Reserve also own the Bank of England which also is a private bank.

This is not a political rant, merely pointing out the reasoning behind the exit of GB from Europe from the British viewpoint. I live in Europe and would have prefered to have seen an alternative scenario than an exit. However no one likes to be dictated to and made to cough up money in the process. I cannot believe that the EU does not STOP Belgium from an illegal act.... why will they not?

I am a member of two NGOs and discuss our issues with Europe all the time. Quite familiar with how the bureaucracy operates.
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Old 24-07-2017, 03:27   #82
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Re: Belgian customs at it again

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Gosh Polux. Your grasp of how the EC works is a little off.
Each country has the right to question a central ruling. You are pretty anti UK as I can see.

Recently, the EU ruled that in Spain, that on restaurant tables must be NEW unopened bottle of Olive oil for each new customer. Spain has a history of filling the olive oil containers with locally produced oil which each restaurant thinks is the 'best' and adds to the reputation of the restaurant.

Spain refused to comply. The ruling was dropped.

As for centralised funding... each country has the right to question and the right to implement taxation within a framework. You forget that Britain is the second largest contributor to the EU in payments. For all this compliance and financial aid, Britain was told to take one million refugees..THAT is the reason for Brexit, not taxation.

I can tell you directly that the EU has become overly authoritarian and dictatorial in its 'request's from member states. Had they stuck to the central issues of free trade and cross border unity instead of interfering with every member countrys traditions and right to self rule based on tradition and heritage, it would be a wonderful thing.

Britain did not join the monetary equality simply because when a nation is in trouble, they can float currency on the international market up or down to ease the problem. When the Euro gets in trouble, it affects all member countries and each country has no where to go to relieve the financial pressure. Poor member states can go bankrupt.

The EU has not been good for Greece or Italy or Spain and a few other countries. Time will show who will leave the current version of the EU. I also find it strange that the Bank behind the funding of the EU is the Federal Reserve. That said, the Federal Reserve also own the Bank of England which also is a private bank.

This is not a political rant, merely pointing out the reasoning behind the exit of GB from Europe from the British viewpoint. I live in Europe and would have prefered to have seen an alternative scenario than an exit. However no one likes to be dictated to and made to cough up money in the process. I cannot believe that the EU does not STOP Belgium from an illegal act.... why will they not?

I am a member of two NGOs and discuss our issues with Europe all the time. Quite familiar with how the bureaucracy operates.
I know a bit about the EU also. I deal with the EU in my business in fact and, I had a meeting in Brussels a couple of weeks ago at the level of the Vice President of the EU Commission, just a couple of weeks ago.

I am not anti EU -- I think the EU has done a lot more good than harm, and I hope the EU survives. But the EU definitely needs serious reform. I regret that the UK is leaving the EU, which does a lot of harm in different ways to both the UK and the EU.
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Old 24-07-2017, 03:30   #83
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Re: Belgian customs at it again

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I know a bit about the EU also. I deal with the EU in my business in fact and, I had a meeting in Brussels a couple of weeks ago at the level of the Vice President of the EU Commission, just a couple of weeks ago.

I am not anti EU -- I think the EU has done a lot more good than harm, and I hope the EU survives. But the EU definitely needs serious reform. I regret that the UK is leaving the EU, which does a lot of harm in different ways to both the UK and the EU.
Reform is good.
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Old 24-07-2017, 03:38   #84
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Re: Belgian customs at it again

Bureaucracy gone mad ... apparently that's inevitable ..... who in their right mind specifies the curvature of bananas ?
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Old 24-07-2017, 03:40   #85
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Re: Belgian customs at it again

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Bureaucracy gone mad ... apparently that's inevitable ..... who in their right mind specifies the curvature of bananas ?
Not only that... but they forbid the sale of bananas that do not meet the specs...

ergo: NO cheap bananas.
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Old 24-07-2017, 06:34   #86
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Re: Belgian customs at it again

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Bureaucracy gone mad ... apparently that's inevitable ..... who in their right mind specifies the curvature of bananas ?
The EU has gone from a great idea to a "what were we thinking" implementation.

In most countries getting sensible laws passed is enough of a struggle with the pulling from the left and right. Add in wildly different cultures with totally different mindsets then you have pulling from all different directions and then you end up with laws about banana curvature.
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Old 24-07-2017, 07:06   #87
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Re: Belgian customs at it again

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The EU has gone from a great idea to a "what were we thinking" implementation.
Absolutely, the original idea of a free trade area called the EEC was good. Unfortunately the un-elected Eurocrats saw the opportunities for power and the EU is now looking like some sort of prototype Death star.
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Old 24-07-2017, 07:17   #88
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Re: Belgian customs at it again

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Absolutely, the original idea of a free trade area called the EEC was good. Unfortunately the un-elected Eurocrats saw the opportunities for power and the EU is now looking like some sort of prototype Death star.
There is a lot more good than just free trade, in the idea of European integration, in my opinion.

The problem is that harmonization of regulation (also a good thing in my view) got turned into uncontrolled expansion of regulation by politically unaccountable forces. That's where reform efforts should be concentrated.
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Old 24-07-2017, 07:37   #89
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Re: Belgian customs at it again

deathstar... lol lolol..
Coffee splatter.
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Old 24-07-2017, 10:13   #90
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Re: Belgian customs at it again

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As heavily as in Diesel for private cars, I would say not not heavily but normally.

Lighter taxs on fuel are not for leisure purposes but for working purposes, like farming or commercial /industrial activities that need diesel for productive uses.

This is the general view on the EU and it is what the legislation (directives) regards. Hard to understand how private leisure boating has anything to do with productive work.
What color diesel do you burn while driving to work?
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