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Old 15-06-2019, 03:54   #16
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Re: Bavarua 42 abandoned enroute NZ to Tahiti

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It doesn't look like it has a windvane, so single handing that journey is pretty optimistic. I wouldn't try it without a vane and plenty of spares,as well as spares for the autopilot and an emergency rudder.

If his autopilot died and he doesn't have the experience to set up his storm jib for self steering then he might well have called it quits.
It surprises me how many have no back up autopilot. My autopilot failed recently, no problem because I engaged the Hydrovane , it dosent fail, it steered 1,400nm.
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Old 21-06-2019, 08:42   #17
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Re: Bavarua 42 abandoned enroute NZ to Tahiti

Right, everything looks fine. The VHF would have clarified the situation but the vessel was nevertheless abandoned. Would also love to know the whys. Back story would be interesting too. Hamburking, your story reminds me of Katherine Ann Porter's "Ship of Fools" . Good on you for surviving but . . . . cheer up, it does not need to be like that. We found the first three days were the most difficult then we settled into a rhythm. Mind you, we never encountered any seas as bad as you describe! Circumnav '97 to 2008.
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Old 21-06-2019, 09:35   #18
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Re: Bavarua 42 abandoned enroute NZ to Tahiti

I've often wondered whether abandoning one's vessel for reasons short of a catastrophic failure of the boat itself (e.g. sinking, fire, loss of steerage, etc.) would amount to a "total loss" allowing an insurance recovery. A good example might be a singlehander requiring medical attention. (assuming the abandoned boat is never found/salvaged). Or taking it further, a captain/crew who simply want off for reasons Hamburking described.

I've never found any language in my own insurance policies which specifically address this. Only a general "seaworthiness" clause which may disallow recovery if the cause for abandonment is deemed negligent. Just curious if some of these incidents of abandonment of otherwise functional boats (as far as we know) result in successful insurance claims for total loss.
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Old 21-06-2019, 13:29   #19
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Re: Bavarua 42 abandoned enroute NZ to Tahiti

I believe I have read of cases where the owner(s) have intentionally scuttled their boat when forced to abandon it to prevent it from becoming a hazard to shipping. I never understood if that was a requirement of the rescuers or the insurer or just something the abandoners thought appropriate? Anyone know of requirements in this situation?
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Old 22-06-2019, 23:44   #20
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Re: Bavarua 42 abandoned enroute NZ to Tahiti

Scuttling used to be considered good practice to avoid hazards to other boats. Nowadays environmental concerns and better ability to pinpoint the vessel makes that less certain.

For insurance purposes there would be some element to consider here. Abandoning would certainly not be a “total loss”.

I’m aware of a number of people here in Christchurch who had a problem claiming on their vehicle insurance after the earthquakes. The insurers rightly stated that the vehicles weren’t written off, but damage to a public car park meant that it was impossible to get to them or remove them from the building. They eventually got paid out several years later when the building was demolished (and the cars were destroyed in the process). Not quite the same thing, but similar considerations. I’d certainly not call that Bavaria a write off from the pictures.
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Old 23-06-2019, 09:31   #21
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Re: Bavarua 42 abandoned enroute NZ to Tahiti

Hey! He just had enough... help was just a message away and he chose that option. End of story, It looks like a nice boat on calm water, from the comfort of my chair at my desk, a half a world away. It's nice no rescue people were hurt and the tax payers will hardly notice the $300K spent on this exercise. Gosh!!!! J. Slocum sure made it look easy.
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Old 23-06-2019, 12:25   #22
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Re: Bavarua 42 abandoned enroute NZ to Tahiti

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I've often wondered whether abandoning one's vessel for reasons short of a catastrophic failure of the boat itself (e.g. sinking, fire, loss of steerage, etc.) would amount to a "total loss" allowing an insurance recovery. A good example might be a singlehander requiring medical attention. (assuming the abandoned boat is never found/salvaged). Or taking it further, a captain/crew who simply want off for reasons Hamburking described.

I've never found any language in my own insurance policies which specifically address this. Only a general "seaworthiness" clause which may disallow recovery if the cause for abandonment is deemed negligent. Just curious if some of these incidents of abandonment of otherwise functional boats (as far as we know) result in successful insurance claims for total loss.
Some very interesting questions in the above post.

Since he is voluntarily abandoning the vessel it appears analogous to leaving ones vehicle in a carpark and not going back for it. However if he was obliged to abandon it, say due to rudder failure where the boat was no longer able to be motored or sailed, then the abandonment would be justified and might be claimable.

My policy has a distance offshore exclusion which I believe many have. So the distance offshore becomes an issue.

There is also the question of salvage since the vessel was left afloat.

I suspect that whether the underwriter accepts an obligation under the policy or not would come down to cost of reimbursement for loss versus cost of litigation and reputation damage sensitivity.
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Old 23-06-2019, 13:04   #23
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Re: Bavarua 42 abandoned enroute NZ to Tahiti

A few years ago I went with a couple on their Rival 36 foot sailboat to PR. We had poor weather just waiting for a window to "go". The husband had an inner ear infection and spent the entire trip below in bed. Luckily, the boat had a good radar and a solid wind vane. I spent the entire trip at the helm or sleeping in the cockpit for 15 minute snatches. I got so tired I was chewing coffee beans. When we got near PR, the owner told me he had not reserved a slip. I looked up a marina and got on "sail mail" to my wife back in the US. She got on the phone and reserved a slip for us. When we got to PR I was so tired I just slept for a whole day. My weather gear">foul weather gear was shredded and I had a month's growth of beard. I am very thankful for radar and a solid wind vane.
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Old 23-06-2019, 23:39   #24
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Re: Bavarua 42 abandoned enroute NZ to Tahiti

Good job, moctrams!

Without knowing what was wrong, it's always tempting to second guess the skipper, and I guess some of us have more flexibility (to change destination) or perseverance (to continue on under shortened sail) than others.

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Old 23-06-2019, 23:41   #25
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Re: Bavarua 42 abandoned enroute NZ to Tahiti

That sounds horrific, moctrans. Did the owner know how much he owed you?
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Old 24-06-2019, 01:29   #26
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Re: Bavarua 42 abandoned enroute NZ to Tahiti

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When you are actually out there, its entirely different than you can imagine. Your whole world rolling without end. Every task is harder than imagined...going to the head, getting a drink of water, even sleeping. After a couple weeks the strain can be overwhelming as the brain starts to suffer from lack of food, liquid, sleep. Captain and crew can get grumpy, even furious for little or no reason at all. And with hundreds or thousands of miles left to go, the mind begins to stray. For someone not mentally prepared it can be a living hell. And with no end in sight, the desire to just go home can become overwhelming.

When I crossed the Atlantic, the skipper/owner experienced so much stress that literally his eyes began to bleed. We called an eye specialist on the sat phone who said to eliminate the cause of his stress...LOL. We had 3 reefs in the main for a week solid...and I wish there had been a 4th reef. The waves were mountainous. The boat rolled from gunnel to gunnel and there was a cacophony of noise from below as every single item aboard knocked about in its cabinet. The teak decks leaked and everything was soaked in salt water. Once the fresh food was gone, we ate little more than baked potatoes and black beans. The rest of the crew did their best to stay drunk all day, and I stood watch alone all night, every night. Words cannot describe the emotions and thoughts that go through your head on such a trip.

We sit here at our computers and phones and read about ocean passages and tropical anchorages. But the reality of a long passage can be quite different than the romantic images often portrayed. It does not end until you finish. Weeks at sea, going slow.

I would love to hear the story from the rescued skipper.

HUMMMM - we sailed across in 2013 with a 2 handed crew - yea we made early mistakes with sleeping and eating but after 4-5 days we heaved to for 6 hours slept and ate a good meal then reoriented our minds that we were running a marathon not a 5k - once that set in we were fine with sleep and eating and worked it out - we had good sleep and eating - did we get big winds and seas? of course we just reefed down and slowed the down to stop the pounding but still made 5+k - not a big deal - just did a 1,000nm in 2 stages - set in south Crete to wait out a huge blow at 40+k for 3+days - we are to old to get stressed by what we can not control - we learned just to deal with it and work through it

we will see what the issue was when it is reported
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Old 24-06-2019, 03:04   #27
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pirate Re: Bavarua 42 abandoned enroute NZ to Tahiti

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HUMMMM - we sailed across in 2013 with a 2 handed crew - yea we made early mistakes with sleeping and eating but after 4-5 days we heaved to for 6 hours slept and ate a good meal then reoriented our minds that we were running a marathon not a 5k - once that set in we were fine with sleep and eating and worked it out - we had good sleep and eating - did we get big winds and seas? of course we just reefed down and slowed the down to stop the pounding but still made 5+k - not a big deal - just did a 1,000nm in 2 stages - set in south Crete to wait out a huge blow at 40+k for 3+days - we are to old to get stressed by what we can not control - we learned just to deal with it and work through it

we will see what the issue was when it is reported
Concur... many folks seem to think maintaining daily averages is all important and when they find they cannot for whatever reason they start stressing out and pressing themselves harder to try and catch up resulting in mistakes and/or exhaustion.
You see it on here when folk startt sneering about 3 weeks Mexico to Marquesas or 14 to 15 days to Transat.. Nature dont work like that and people make bad choices when the pressure comes on.
Go with the flow.. 170/day or 35/day makes no odds its arriving thats important.. Not how fast you think you should..
Once you can accept that life is so much easier out there
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Old 25-06-2019, 00:10   #28
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Re: Bavarua 42 abandoned enroute NZ to Tahiti

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Concur... many folks seem to think maintaining daily averages is all important and when they find they cannot for whatever reason they start stressing out and pressing themselves harder to try and catch up resulting in mistakes and/or exhaustion.
You see it on here when folk startt sneering about 3 weeks Mexico to Marquesas or 14 to 15 days to Transat.. Nature dont work like that and people make bad choices when the pressure comes on.
Go with the flow.. 170/day or 35/day makes no odds its arriving thats important.. Not how fast you think you should..
Once you can accept that life is so much easier out there
I read a story about an old British couple who hove to every night and whilst the wife cooked dinner the husband took star sights and worked a position. After dinner they listened to the BBC overseas service for a while then went to bed. In the morning she cooked breakfast whilst he did any other nav work or small repairs needed. After breakfast the set sails for the day. They once were declared missing whilst doing a particularly slow voyage. When asked why they did it this way he replied that since they were pursuing a lifestyle rather than really going anywhere it did not make sense to rush about and tear up the gear and stress themselves.
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Old 25-06-2019, 00:21   #29
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Re: Bavarua 42 abandoned enroute NZ to Tahiti

That sounds very civilised
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Old 25-06-2019, 01:34   #30
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Re: Bavarua 42 abandoned enroute NZ to Tahiti

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Hey! He just had enough... help was just a message away and he chose that option. End of story, It looks like a nice boat on calm water, from the comfort of my chair at my desk, a half a world away. It's nice no rescue people were hurt and the tax payers will hardly notice the $300K spent on this exercise. Gosh!!!! J. Slocum sure made it look easy.
Can't be that calm, the dude has got a 3rd reef in, probably indicating 30 knots or so. I've never seen what I would call calm water in even 20knts let along 30knts.
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