General Info: Lagoon sensitivity to gear weight?

[jhovan]

Hello,

I currently have a mono hull with all the toys. Generator, watermaker, folding bike, diblasi scooter, hot water tank, solar panels, 170 gallons of diesel, 15hp Yamaha and 10ft dinghy, 6 mos of food, air conditioning etc. My question is this, can all this gear be put onto a Lagoon 380 or Lagoon 410? I enjoy having all the comforts of a house. However, a post on this forum concerning a Lagoon 410 said that the owners returned to Florida from Trinidad to "remove some gear". I believe she said the weight was impacting the boats performance in heavy seas.

My question is this, I see other folks running generators and larger fuel and water tankage etc. Do these items create safety issues? Hull smack issues? Or, is it more of a performance issue? Was the issue above due to the location of the weight or the weight in general?

I'm new to Catamarans and before I get too excited about buying one, I want to ensure that adding the toys is possible. I refuse to submit to having to buy lower quality items like the fisher panda generator to save weight. (BTW. Everywhere I went in the Caribbean, people were cussing these things) I currently have a 300 plus pound northern lights generator. I consider this a serious cruising generator. The former I do not and would be unhappy to have to settle for this type of gear.

Would love to hear thoughts on those living aboard and have ac/generators etc. If there are other catamaran brands/models more suited to more gear, I would be interested in hearing those thoughts as well.

thanks in advance,
John
(Over 5,000 sea miles in the gulf of mexico and caribbean in the past three years.)

[timbenner]

John,

I'm jealous of your 5,000 sea miles in the past three years! My Lagoon 380 is currently sitting on the hard waiting for me to get up and go somewhere. Currently taking care of business, but hoping to head to the Exumas after hurricane season (November, 2012).

Regarding your Lagoon 380/410 weight question. Here's a partial list of the excess crap I carry on my Lagoon 380:
two 6,000 BTU (installed under aft bunks) and one 12,000 BTU (under salon coach) air conditioning units, Spectra Catalina water maker (under port aft bunk), microwave, additional drawer freezer (under salon couch, accessed from port hallway), ICOM SSB, roughly 200 lbs of tools, every Ryobi cordless power tool they make, case of fuel filters, 5 fishing rods, 2 large spools of fishing line, 12 life jackets, 3 automatic inflatable life jackets, with jack line tethers, Jordan Series Drogue, with 400' of line, 12' para anchor, 2 emergency immersion suits, dry suit, wet suits, dive gear for 3, with tanks, regulators, etc., 8 man life raft (stored in transom cavity), 10.5' RIB, with 8 hp Yamaha, spare parts (50+ lbs), case of oil, 3 anchors (120+ lbs), 200' of chain, 1,000' of 1" rode, 5 KW PHASOR GENERATOR (with Kubota diesel, in forward port locker), Xantrex 2500 watt inverter, 6 - 6 volt gel house batteries (650 amp hours), 3 - 12 volt lead acid start batteries, ETC.

Hey, I just remembered my EXCEL spreadsheet titled "380 Weight Estimate", here's a copy of it (sorry the numbers didn't line up):

4/18/11

Light Displacement: 16,008
Maximum Load Displacement: 23,064
Maximum Load: 7,056

DECK: # LBS Subtotal
Anchor - Grapple 1 15 15
Spinnaker Bridle 1 25 25
3rd Winch 1 20 20
Bimini Top 1 175 175
Life Jackets 10 1 10
Mooring Bitts 2 1 2
Antennas 2 5 10
Life Raft 1 100 100
Dingy 1 140 140
Yamaha 1 80 80
Gas Cans & Gas 2 25 50
Hand holds 6 1 6
Dodger 1 5 5
Stantion netting 1 5 5
Boom Brake 1 1 1
Chart Plotters 2 5 10
Solar 3 30 90
Helm Seat 1 20 20
SUBTOTAL: 764
Port Bow Locker:
Spinnaker & sock 1 40 40
Shelves 1 15 15
Dock Ramp 15 0
Masks, fins, etc. 1 10 10
Extra Halyards 3 25 75
SUBTOTAL: 140
Strbd Bow Locker:
Shelves 1 15 15
Fuel Cans/Buckets 8 0.5 4
Dock Bumpers 8 2 16
Jordan Drogue 1 100 100
Brushes 3 1 3
SUBTOTAL: 138
Port Locker:
Generator 1 300 300
Fuel Tank 12 8 96
SUBTOTAL: 396
Starboard Locker
Shelves 2 3 6
Hoses 3 3 9
Rodes 3 40 120
Plow anchor 1 78 78
Danforth anchor 1 45 45
Chain 100 2 200
SUBTOTAL: 458
Strbd Cockpit Locker:
Propane Tanks 2 10 20 20

Port Cockpit Locker:
Dock Lines 8 2 16
Bottles 6 1 6
22
Salon:
SSB 1 20 20
Freezer 1 30 30
Tools 1 40 40
Microwave 25 0
Dishes/Utensils 1 20 20
Cans/Bottles 1 25 25
A/C unit 1 35 35
170
Owner's Staterm:
Memory foam 1 20 20
Kyak 1 30 30
Books 1 40 40
Scuba gear 1 50 50
Clothes 1 30 30
Files 1 30 30
Inverter 1 25 25
A/C unit 1 35 35
260
Port Forward Strm:
Closet 1 25 25
Bike 30 0
Tools 1 40 40
Rods, Reels, Line 2 10 20
Spare Parts 1 60 60
145
Port Aft Staterm:
Water maker 1 60 60
Tools 1 80 80
A/C unit 1 35 35
175
Other:
Water 120 8 960
Fuel 50 8 400
1360
Estimated Load: 4048

Boat Displacement: 20,056

If you forward your email, I'll send you the excel file. I couldn't attach it here or I don't know how.

WITH ALL OF THIS CRAP, THE BOAT STILL SAILS REGULARLY AT 10 & 11 KNOTS, IN 15 TO 20 KNOTS OF WIND. HAVE HIT 13 KNOTS ON A BROAD REACH, IN 15 TO 20 KNOTS OF WIND. Buy the boat, I love it!

Tim



Please note how the new Lagoons have gotten very heavy! The 380 weighs roughly 16,000 lbs empty, the new 400 is approximately 23,000 lbs!!!!! 105% more length for 143% MORE WEIGHT?? You'll find this same issue with the older 470 and the new 450, huge weight differences.

[jhovan]

Tim,

This is exactly the info I was looking for. Do you get any hobby horsing with all the gear? It sounds like the phasor is in the forward compartment of one of the pontoons? Also, do you carry 3/8 bbb or 5/16 chain?

Thanks for the weight info on the 380. 7000 lbs seems like plenty of capacity. How much fuel and water? Did you add a tank for the generator?

I see the only issue with the used 380's are the engines. Many have over 5000 hrs. In most cases due to the age of the 380's, they are ready to be replaced. I estimate about 24k to do both engines with new yanmars. That's assuming the new engines fit the old mounts.

Thanks again for your great info!

John

[timbenner]

John,

Yes, I get hobby horsing, but much less when I near-empty the two 75 gallon water tanks located in the two compartments forward of the salon. The Phasor Generator is located in the port forward deck compartment, just forward of the salon. The Generator offsets the weight of the anchors, windless and chain located in the forward starboard deck compartment. The Generator has a 12 gallon tank located in the same compartment.

You don't want much weight in the forward bow pontoon compartments, because there is very little hull in the water there. I have an asymmetric spinnaker, plus extra rope in the port compartment and bumpers, empty buckets, empty fuel containers, etc. in the starboard forward pontoon compartment, plus a Jordan Series Drogue mounted on a rope spool in the aft section of the starboard compartment. The starboard compartment is slightly larger aft than the port compartment, on the Owner's Version boat.

Don't know what size chain I have. The boat comes with the two 75 gallon water tanks, although the second one is an option. It also comes with two 25 gallon diesel fuel tanks located under the aft cabin floor boards - standard.

The used 380's are a bargain, in general, because the stripped down beaten charter boats, drag the price down. The price of a decked out used "Owner's Boat" is dragged down, because of the cheap charter boat prices.

You're much better off buying a used decked out Owner's Boat with all of the added stuff for a small fraction of it's cost, than buying a beaten charter boat with higher engine hours and stripped down. The cost of all of the owner's stuff (SSB, water maker, air conditioning, generator, inverter, solar, hard top bimini, extra refrig/freezer, etc.) is anywhere from $100,000 to $150,000 additional money, which you will get for a fraction of that. Not to speak of the hassle of getting it all installed.

For example, my boat, a second owner 2002 never chartered, has everything listed above, plus, plus, plus and the engine hours are 1,900 hours. I think that the Phasor generator has less than 400 hours on the Kubota diesel and a new 2 year old generator bolted to it from Phasor for roughly $700. When the generator craps out (way before the diesel) it's cheaper to bolt a new one on than try and fix 8 year old corroded electronics. I would be lucky to get around $250,000 for it. Same year charter boat might bring $200,000.

Tim