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prof_mariner · 13-01-2014, 17:00

I've been following the situation with the boats that have been impounded in Mexico so am considering changing our cruising plans. One question I have not been able to find an answer to is this: Is a Temporary Import Permit required if the vessel in question only remains in a Mexican port temporarily (say 48 hours)? Surely cruise ships don't need to have a TIP, nor do commercial ships, so when is a TIP required?

Aikiguy · 13-01-2014, 17:03

Why would you take the chance. If you are going to be in Mexico get a TIP the thing only costs $50.00.

And yes technically you should have one...

Guy
:-)

prof_mariner · 13-01-2014, 17:16

It's not a matter of taking a chance, but rather finding out in advance if a law applies to my situation or not. I have no intention of leaving my boat in Mexico nor spending a long time in any of its ports. I would like to pull in to a Mexican port to replenish and maybe have dinner. For the length of time I would be staying in Mexico I have a hard time believing that I am "importing" my vessel into a foreign country. But if that is indeed the case, could someone please cite a reference so I can educate myself on the subject?

Aikiguy · 13-01-2014, 18:18

MexOnline.com - Taking Your Boat To Mexico - Official Government Information

If you are in a port you have to check in. If you check in you have to Check in.. You have to complete all the necessary paperwork:

"What should I do when I arrive in Mexico?

1. Obtain a Tourist Visa (FMT) from the immigration office.
2. Obtain from Customs a temporary import permit for the vessel and the trailer.
3. Pay $ 10.00 (in U.S. Currency) with an international credit card, or deposit with the"

Guy
:-)

prof_mariner · 13-01-2014, 18:31

I saw that, which from what I can tell is that company's interpretation of whatever the Mexican law is. What I was hoping to find was something a bit more specific than that, which may not exist online (or in English).

SV THIRD DAY · 13-01-2014, 19:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by prof_mariner

I saw that, which from what I can tell is that company's interpretation of whatever the Mexican law is. What I was hoping to find was something a bit more specific than that, which may not exist online (or in English).

1-3 are not specific enough?
You may not like Mexico if you want more specific that that.
All boats checking into Mexico need a TIP. $50 and Valid for 10 years.
You can play the "I'm only here for 48hr game" or pay the $50 and not worry about explaing that to the Officials when you are lucky enouth to get inspected on Hour 47.
Somtimes things are as simple as they look.....

prof_mariner · 13-01-2014, 20:19

I don't have an issue with paying a fee, what concerns me is the word "import" which implies I intend on leaving my boat there. My concern is that by importing my property into Mexico (even temporarily) I may be surrendering some of my rights as a foreign flagged vessel.

I'm just wondering how other types of foreign flagged vessels who transit through Mexican ports are processed. For example cruise and cargo ships. I suspect that this TIP is intended for gringos who want to bring property (cars, boats, etc.) into Mexico and leave it there.

I also understand your point, that regardless of what the law says, if the official on the dock says you need this paper, then you better have it.

I guess I'll just have to wait and see what shakes out from the current situation in Mexico.

Dos Gatos · 13-01-2014, 20:28

When I checked in at Ensenada the first time at Cruiseport Marina, I had to buy a TIP when I went to the gov't office. They didn't give you the option. Other marinas wanted a copy of your visa, TIP and boat docs to rent you a slip. SOP.

prof_mariner · 13-01-2014, 20:46

@Dos Gatos - How long were these boats staying in Mexico, or didn't it matter? I know a lot of socal boats head to ensenada to avoid sales tax etc. and consequently stay in Mexico for months before returning.

I guess my hope was that by shortening our stay in Mexico we might avoid or limit the risk of problems, but I guess that's not necessarily the case.

Dos Gatos · 13-01-2014, 21:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by prof_mariner

@Dos Gatos - How long were these boats staying in Mexico, or didn't it matter? I know a lot of socal boats head to ensenada to avoid sales tax etc. and consequently stay in Mexico for months before returning.

I guess my hope was that by shortening our stay in Mexico we might avoid or limit the risk of problems, but I guess that's not necessarily the case.

Rule #1. You are in a different country. Can't have the expectations of a US citizen living north of the border. Play by their rules. What you want is of no concern to them.

They don't know how long you're staying, so from day 1 you have to have a TIP, boat docs, and a minimum 180 day tourist visa. Might as well get a fishing license while you're at it and then play red light/green light at the customs window. Not that you have a choice. Although the second year I went down they skipped the customs window since I already had a TIP. They didn't see the point of having a boat inspection. Anything aboard can just be added to the TIP so it would just be effort on their part for no gain.

Rule #2. Don't make jokes about smuggling in things. Smiles go frowny real fast.

Bonus points for learning spanish before you go.

TacomaSailor · 13-01-2014, 22:18

Here is a statement found in the Manual of Tourist Entry published by GOB / SECTUR:

http://www.sectur.gob.mx/work/models...119/ingles.pdf

The following seems to leave no option about getting the TIP. I do find it interesting that the TIP must list:
-means of transportation
- electrical kitchen devices
- furniture
- instrument

contained in the ship.

"3.3.1.1. CUSTOMS
Passengers residing in a foreign country entering Mexico in ships such as boats, yachts
or sailing boats must go through the steps of provisional importation of their means of
transportation and in their application at the Mexican Customs, they will indicate out the
electrical devices of the kitchen, furniture and instruments the ship contains, as will as
the merchandise and necessary supplies for their stay in the country.
If you so desire, in the Marina of your preference, you will be helped through these
steps, and in some cases they may be able to go through all the steps for you.
Regardless of whether your nationality is Mexican or foreign, or if you are resident in
national territory or in a foreign country, you may temporarily import your ship for a
maximum of ten years. For this purpose you must submit the following documents at the
customs of entry:
1. “Application for Authorization of Provisional Importation of Ships”. Fill in the data
requested on the form that will be handed to you when arriving at the customs of
entry into the country or in the marina.
2. A single copy of any of the following documents to prove the property of the
ownership:
a) Invoice,
b) Title deed, or
c) Registration certificate
Once these documents have been checked, the application will be stamped and signed
by the customs authority, and it will thereby become the provisional importation license,
which allows the legal stay of the ship in the country for a maximum term of ten years."

How many of you can provide the "invoice" for each item listed in the TIP?

Remember the items I listed above. Invoices for the kitchen devices, furniture, and instruments. That does make me nervous because I've done a few TIPs in Mexico and no one ever told me to list my deck chairs, and Keurig coffee maker. When I purchased my boat new it had some instruments and I added many similar ones. How can I prove which was installed and paid for when I purchased the boat and which I purchased later?

Prior to December 2013 I would have laughed at those concerns, maybe even before last week, but now with the recent boats being embargoed for not having two HINs, I am worried that Mexico can embargo my boat for pretty much any reason they want to drag out of some obscure and previously ignored regulation.

Who even knew about the requirement for two HIN? Apparently Caliber Yachts, the US manufacturer of my boat, and 400+ other similar boats did not know about it. Now I find that the 2nd HIN is required in Mexico.

SV THIRD DAY · 13-01-2014, 22:45

Yes...but you are digging too deep amigo.
NO boats were put on the "can't leave port list" for not having two HINs or for not having a receipt for their vacuum saver for heavens sake. Step away from the internet...it is driving you crazy....don't feed the panic beast

TacomaSailor · 13-01-2014, 23:05

Boats were embargoed that had perfect credentials and all the necessary documents.

The Head of Mexican Tourism, the managers of several affected marinas, and respected boat owners in Mexico have all stated that boats that were perfectly legal have been embargoed and no one, not even their Mexican attorneys, can get them off the embargo list.

From the San Diego Log newspaper:
"Retrieving his original permit should have remedied the victim’s mistake and the boat should have been released, said Tourism Board Director Jorge Gamboa.

“[SAT agents] did the wrong thing,” Gamboa said. “The SAT agents went there and didn't know how to read the papers.”"

Several Mexican east coast cruiser have lost their boats for over a year because they did not have a US zarpe. That rule has never been enforced on the Mexican west coast yet it is clearly stated in the SECTUR manual for tourists.

I always carried my TIP with me anyplace I went in Mexico so that I could buy or import parts for our boat. But, I can't find any thing in any document that says a TIP must be displayed in the window of the boat as AGACE expected. In fact, I can't see any thing in any Mexican document that says I need to produce a TIP except to avoid paying import duties when importing parts.

So - why should I not be worried about obscure rules that might be enforced?

prof_mariner · 14-01-2014, 05:57

I think you're missing my point, which is this: Is "importing" a foreign flagged vessel the -only- way that vessel can gain entry into a Mexican port? As I indicated earlier, "importing" property into a foreign country implies that you plan on either leaving it there or using it there. The link and quote posted by TacomaSailor seems to support this.

It's possible that Mexican law views transiting yachts as "property" rather than a "flagged vessel". It would appear that Mexico may not have a "cruising permit" such as the US offers to foreign flagged vessels who visit our coast. There's a big difference between the two. One implies that the "property" is staying in that country, the other implies that the "vessel" is just passing through. I'm just trying to learn how Mexican law views this.