Roberts 36 Ketch

[Boxertwinjeff]

Hi, I'm new to this forum and hail from Cairns Australia. Wondering if anyone has had experience with this model, looking at this one soon, do they sail reasonably well to windward?, have they a seakindly motion at sea? and is it a negative having such a raised deck? Hull is built of C-Flex GRP
Knowledge & Opinions appreciated as I'm new to the Cruising yacht scene, Jeff.

[Boxertwinjeff]

This is the yacht in question

[Boxertwinjeff]

Originally Posted by Boxertwinjeff

This is the yacht in question

My photo doesn't appear to want to upload?

[GILow]

Hello jeff,

You have great taste in boats by my books. I only recently discovered the Roberts 36 when one appeared on a thread regarding a bloke who went missing for a little while between Noumea and QLD. Look for a thread titled "urgent assistance required to find missing Australian yacht".

From memory I felt it looked a little tender, but a lovely salty looking boat all the same.

I think Snowpetrel knew a bit about the design too.

Over time I have met a few couples who sail what I would loosely call "small ketches" and the general impression I got from each of them is that the ketch configuration in that size made sense 30 or so years ago but with modern sails and sail handling systems the benefit of the smaller sails is less relevant now and does not justify the cost or complexity of the duplication of the rigging. This, I stress, is only secondhand advice based on chatting to people with these boats.

Still, I really do love the look of the Roberts 36 and if I was looking for a boat today it would be high on my list to investigate based purely on the appearance of the boat.

Matt


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[GILow]

P.S. Was this the boat you were looking at?



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[GILow]

P.p.s. High freeboard can be a very nice thing, in my books. Yes, the windage issues are a bugger when docking, but we just completed a trip last weekend in company with ten other yachts. They all arrived drenched, wearing wet weather gear and harnesses, while we were wearing shorts, t shirts and sandals. Ok, we didn't win the fashion parade but we arrived without a single drip on the deck despite doing the trip in 20 to 25 knots, beam reach the whole way.


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[Boxertwinjeff]

Originally Posted by GILow

P.S. Was this the boat you were looking at?
Attachment 114131
Yes, that's the one alright,... wondering how they perform, would they
sail much better than a Roberts Spray 36?....will it be a handful for a
singlehander? positives & negatives welcome.....I intend to liveaboard
& coastal cruise for extended periods, is the 36 a safe Bluewater design?


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[Boxertwinjeff]

Originally Posted by GILow

Hello jeff,

You have great taste in boats by my books. I only recently discovered the Roberts 36 when one appeared on a thread regarding a bloke who went missing for a little while between Noumea and QLD. Look for a thread titled "urgent assistance required to find missing Australian yacht".

From memory I felt it looked a little tender, but a lovely salty looking boat all the same.

I think Snowpetrel knew a bit about the design too.

Over time I have met a few couples who sail what I would loosely call "small ketches" and the general impression I got from each of them is that the ketch configuration in that size made sense 30 or so years ago but with modern sails and sail handling systems the benefit of the smaller sails is less relevant now and does not justify the cost or complexity of the duplication of the rigging. This, I stress, is only secondhand advice based on chatting to people with these boats.

Still, I really do love the look of the Roberts 36 and if I was looking for a boat today it would be high on my list to investigate based purely on the appearance of the boat.

Matt


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I would have thought this hull/keel design would track reasonably well and have reasonable speed and performance given adequate sail area for a cruising yacht, what do you guys think?

[Snowpetrel]

PM sent, I am guessing she would sail well as long as she had enough wind. It would be worth checking SA/displacement, using 100% genoa.

I have heard the cutters suffer weather helm, but it's much easier to balance a ketch.

I don't think she would be fast to windward, but she would do ok given the right amount of wind and regular seas.

She looks to be a comfortable, easily handled and safe design, but not particularly good in light airs or to windward.

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[GILow]

Originally Posted by Boxertwinjeff

I would have thought this hull/keel design would track reasonably well and have reasonable speed and performance given adequate sail area for a cruising yacht, what do you guys think?

Ooh, ouch. You shattered the dream man!

Seriously, I think those boats look superb in the water, but that underwater profile is giving me the shivers. I am no racing sailor but that feels like a real bugger to beat to windward, and looks very, very tender to me. I think Snowpetrel is being generous in his interpretation, but I defer to his much greater experience in these matters, his instincts will be better than mine.

Still, it is a great looking boat and appears to be in very good condition, can you get a test sail on it?

Matt

[Boxertwinjeff]

Originally Posted by GILow

Ooh, ouch. You shattered the dream man!

Seriously, I think those boats look superb in the water, but that underwater profile is giving me the shivers. I am no racing sailor but that feels like a real bugger to beat to windward, and looks very, very tender to me. I think Snowpetrel is being generous in his interpretation, but I defer to his much greater experience in these matters, his instincts will be better than mine.

Still, it is a great looking boat and appears to be in very good condition, can you get a test sail on it?

Matt

Matt, what do you mean by very, very tender?....and whats scarey with the hull shape? if its still available when I'm back in town I will be asking for a test sail.

[GILow]

I am no naval architect, but Dad was, and I have followed his reasoning on hull form over the years. He has a keen eye for boat shape and is very good at looking past the obvious aesthetics to the hull underneath.


When I look at the hull shape I try to picture what happens as the boat begins to lean, picture where the resistance to leaning is going to come from. In short, the keel weight needs to work "against" something, so I try to look for the side of the boat either gaining buoyancy as the boat leans, or at least attempting to force the upwind side of the boat upwards, against the weight of the keel. I am sure there are technical descriptions for all this, unfortunately I do not know what they are. But I will flatter myself a little that regardless of not knowing the proper terminology, I have made pretty good guesses as to hull behaviour over the years. NOT infallible by any means, and I was completely stumped when discussing a pair of IOR one tonners I had been admiring with a club member who assured me that despite my admiration for the boats in question, they sailed like a tub of lard and were a pig in most conditions.


Anyway, the shape of the Roberts 36 topsides are telling me there is no resistance to rolling, combine this with the very shallow keel and I just cannot see where the resistance to heeling is going to come from. Unless they have a centreboard?


But really, these are just knee-jerk reactions from me, and would not stop me from looking at the boat if I were in the buying market. I still think they are seriously handsome boat (the one you are looking at is particularly smart) and Mr. Roberts knew a lot more about designing sailboats than me. I'd rather sail something he designed than something I cooked up.


Just try and get the boat out for a sail in at least 12 - 15 knots of wind and see how it behaves. If it is like our Swanson it will need that much to get going anyway, and problems with tenderness and pointing should be apparent in those conditions.

Matt

P.S. For contrast I have included two photos of our hull. To describe our hull behaviour I would say that it is not tender (though maybe more so than a modern flat bottom hull) and it absolutely HATES chop, the full bow just ploughs to a stop by the second wave in some conditions. It is quite staggering to feel a 17 ton boat pulled up short from 5 knots. The main upside of our hull shape is the smooth ride in rough conditions, the main downside is the tendency to be shaken around by choppy conditions, our trip through Bass Strait was staggeringly bad in some parts. The resistance to leaning comes, in my view, from the reasonably deep and very heavy keel combined with the shape of the topsides that want to displace more water as the boat leans.


P.P.S. The other downside of our hull is the rather large wetted area, which you can see me wrestling with in the first photo. I am about 6'2" for reference.

[GILow]

P.S. Here we are plodding along at about 6.2 knots, in a 15 knot beam reach, apparent wind something like 18 knots, wind around 70 degree apparent. As you can see our big blunt old bow is pushing up a big wave, but the boat is damn near level (unless you are multihull sailor, in which case you are quietly sniggering now, and going back to re-read the recent thread on lee-cloth fabrication)

[psk125]

Many Roberts designed boats are home-built, so construction quality will vary accordingly. If high freeboard can create handling problems in a windy marina (as mentioned above) think about it's effect in 25 or more knots of breeze out on the ocean with waves that have been building for three days. You may get knocked around more, need to reef sooner, and therefore go slower, so you're out in it longer. The long keel does help hold a course, but isn't going to improve upwind performance. It does increase the wetted surface of the hull, so you will need more sail up to keep her moving. That is going to make you heel...

Boats are all about trade-offs and compromises. If you like this one after a test-sail, it may be worth looking into further.

[HankOnthewater]

I have sailed a 36 ft Roberts sloop in GRP; that boat had a centre cockpit, high freeboard, large stern-arch with small RIB, solar-panels, wind genny, radar and all the fruit, near solid-bimini, very large box on aft deck for storage, hard-case liferaft on the front deck, and maybe because of all these things was very tender.
The boat was difficult to balance (with furler and main), as it had (too much) weather helm.
But the design was completely different than the blue boat shown in this thread. The one I am referring to had a fin keel and a rudder on skeg. Sorry, have no photo of this boat.

Hmmm, this post does not help you much then.......