My search for a boat may have just happened.

[topfish]

I posted this in my original thread but do not seem to get any responses. So am doing an update. I want responses and especially from old salts! I might be ending up with an old Pearson vanguard 32..

Again I wish to extend my appreciation for everyone's opinions- even the not so nice ones lol. Of course this is a forum with many old salts who are not short on sharing their views. I actually like that very much. I love the opinions of old salts even if they are my age as well lol..

Please realize I wanted a small cruiser mostly coastal and did not wish to sell my home. I was getting to the point I thought selling my home to obtain a quality used boat was a necessity. The Dana 24 was just to small but in my price range which means I could keep my home. I went to a PSC 31 but only 100 boats were made making them hard to find. A new one at 320K base was just not in my budget even after selling my home. I do not want a boat payment. A broker/PSC dealer in Texas explained the 34 actually has more room even without an open layout. I share this because I have found many affordable PSC34's.

My research led me to a Island Packet 31. This was do to pricing and also the room this boat has. Again I could keep my house. Larger IP'S would cause me to sell my home making me a full time live aboard- not something I am opposed to doing! Chain plates were my issue.

I may have found me the perfect boat It is old. A Pearson Vanguard 32 with a tiller. The owner soaked over 60K into a refit. Electrical, electronics, sails, rigging and even a new Kubota engine. My favorite engine I should say! His wife wants a trawler and is forcing him to sell. Happy wife Happy Life. His loss may become my gain!

The broker is sending me a recent survey which I will post on this thread. The boat surveyed at 25K but is selling at 19K. There is some deck delamination- very small area and not a big problem. The yard quoted me 5200$ for a full repair which would be in the purchase agreement. My only other concern is the owner put in a composting head! I have very little knowledge on them. Feedback would be appreciated by you old salts!

The mast is deck stepped and 50 feet tall. I do not think this boat has Keel Bolts.. Again old salts please provide me input!

My real dilemma is do I ship it to the PNW (ALREADY CRUISED OUT) Do I ship it to San Diego my old cruising grounds Mexico included. Or do I just keep it in Texas and experience new cruising grounds? Old Salts please feel free to give your opinions as well. I value your opinions even if they can be harsh at times.

Thank You for taking the time to read this post! Michael
__________________
Old fart who now has the health to get back into sailing!

[topfish]

View Inventory – Little Yacht Sales I am waiting on survey and hope to post it this evening! Here is the listing!

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by topfish

...My only other concern is the owner put in a composting head! I have very little knowledge on them. Feedback would be appreciated by you old salts!

I’m only going to comment on this part of your long list of questions b/c I don’t know the boat other than by reputation (which is good, in my books).

I do use a composting head, and I’m a full-timer. I think they are the best heads for smallish cruising boats with small crews (no more than three). But they are a different approach than the standard marine heads, and they’re not for everyone.

I’d be happy to answer any questions you might have about them. And I know there are quite a few other knowledgable and experienced users on CF.

As for the rest, good luck. Sounds like a good boat at a good price.

[Orion Jim]

Where is the boat the owner soaked 60 grand into?
Not a horrible boat but may be worth less than the asking price. Ask for the receipts totaling 60 grand and use that to adjust your bid.

[chris95040]

Vanguard is a great solid little boat if you are into CCA inspired designs.

You are right, no keel bolts, although I have heard 3rd hand about one where the internal ballast broke loose and was moving around. (I don't think I'd be too concerned about this, I imagine something like that is more common with crappy builders and cast iron ballast: rust forms, bulges, and ultimately breaks the ballast loose, but Pearson was a good builder and the Vanguard's ballast is lead.)

Wicked tender boat. Expect to be at 20-25 degrees of heel when going to weather. She's wet. Slow, too. What's she got, a 20 foot waterline?

She's probably as roomy as a modern 26 footer, maybe less. Narrow, which is part of the reason she's so tender.

Personally I think the giant portlights on the main cabin trunk look a little goofy, that boat has such pretty lines otherwise.

I think there was a "tall mast" option but I'd be surprised if that was 50 feet. Not sure you'd ever shake out your first reef if the mast were that tall.

19K is a lot of money for a slow, wet, tender, cramped old boat with deck delamination, IMHO.

Pretty lines though, and an awful lot of fun on a sunny day when she's at that 20 degrees of heel and suddenly feels stiff as a board.

[SuW]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

...
I do use a composting head, and I’m a full-timer. I think they are the best heads for smallish cruising boats with small crews (no more than three). But they are a different approach than the standard marine heads, and they’re not for everyone.
...As for the rest, good luck. Sounds like a good boat at a good price.

We also have a composting toilet (Nature's Head). Two people. We like it a lot, although we're only using the boat for 7 months a year - we have to empty the head when we haul out for winter. In a warmer climate it will work much better - as it does here in the hottest months.

There are a lot of composting toilets on the park islands in the 1000 Islands so disposal of the compost isn't a problem. Either that or in my flower garden compost pile. We use peat moss as the carbon-based part - we supply the nitrogen!

The only difficulty we've had with the Nature's Head is not the unit itself, but the Nicro solar vent which is a piece of cr*p. We are switching to the direct DC fan this year, although the head doesn't seem to need much of an air flow if you have installed the vent pipe.

The whole head is usually easily removable...you'll laugh, but because we also were skeptical at first, we put the composting head in our house and used it full-time for a month. We were renovating, so it didn't look that out of place and it worked very well. Note: we didn't have the vent pipe/fan fitted and it wasn't a problem.

You do have to be prepared with rubber gloves and a dedicated scoop and sealable bins to remove the compost once every 2-3 weeks.

The boat looks excellent, btw. Heck, I'd truck it rather than working at that distance, unless you want to cruise that area, which could be fun.

[topfish]

Originally Posted by Orion Jim

Where is the boat the owner soaked 60 grand into?
Not a horrible boat but may be worth less than the asking price. Ask for the receipts totaling 60 grand and use that to adjust your bid.

Great point and was my first question. All work was done at the kema boatyard. The engine a Kubota was 15K it is under powered in my opinion at only 20HP. I would have preferred a 27 or 32.. All Electrical upgrades were also done by the boat yard including electronic installs. Being a Texas Boat their was a new AC system. I still am waiting on survey which I will post online. I believe the cost was because he was not a DIY guy rather used the yard! I will take your advice to heart brother. Just realize this is an old boat that has been restored. It is not a project boat which I would not be able to restore. There is some deck delamination- a very small area and the yard quoted me 5200$ which the owner is willing to work with me.

In the end I am really excited as I have a restored classic and do not have to sell my house. That is a plus! Thank you for your great input. I will take it to heart!

[topfish]

Originally Posted by SuW

We also have a composting toilet (Nature's Head). Two people. We like it a lot, although we're only using the boat for 7 months a year - we have to empty the head when we haul out for winter. In a warmer climate it will work much better - as it does here in the hottest months.

There are a lot of composting toilets on the park islands in the 1000 Islands so disposal of the compost isn't a problem. Either that or in my flower garden compost pile. We use peat moss as the carbon-based part - we supply the nitrogen!

The only difficulty we've had with the Nature's Head is not the unit itself, but the Nicro solar vent which is a piece of cr*p. We are switching to the direct DC fan this year, although the head doesn't seem to need much of an air flow if you have installed the vent pipe.

The whole head is usually easily removable...you'll laugh, but because we also were skeptical at first, we put the composting head in our house and used it full-time for a month. We were renovating, so it didn't look that out of place and it worked very well. Note: we didn't have the vent pipe/fan fitted and it wasn't a problem.

You do have to be prepared with rubber gloves and a dedicated scoop and sealable bins to remove the compost once every 2-3 weeks.

The boat looks excellent, btw. Heck, I'd truck it rather than working at that distance, unless you want to cruise that area, which could be fun.

I will have to do some research on composting heads. The boat will be in Texas or San Diego. All thru holes were replaced except the head. I may just invest in a fresh water vacu flush head. My parents love it on their trawler. I hear mixed views on composting heads so that will be addressed and to me is not a big matter! I do look forward to chatting with you on this matter later. Thanks a Bunch!

[Don C L]

Definitely one of the best Vanguards you’ll ever find. I wouldn’t blame anyone for going so far for one in that condition. BUT I wouldn’t buy anything without seeing it in person. There really are few things to worry about with the old boat, they took care of all the big stuff it seems. I know I the tritons had wooden rudders that needed replacing after 50 years probably, but right at this moment I can’t recall about the vanguard. That’s something to ask about. Given all they did to it, I am guessing they beefed up the mast support, but that’s something to check. I had not heard of ballast coming loose, that’s a new one to me... I would doubt it. Now that is definitely a boat I’d consider but I love the ol’ CCA boats, not everyone does. She’ll sail a bit on her ear but the motion will be nice; keep her loaded with heavy stuff centrally located to minimize any hobby-horsing. Did they say 80’ of chain and 150’ of nylon? That’s not enough in my book but really not a deal breaker! Btw I would not be worried about a little deck delam in that boat, there is a lot of glass in the deck, but it might be a bargaining item

[topfish]

Originally Posted by Don C L

Definitely one of the best Vanguards you’ll ever find. I wouldn’t blame anyone for going so far for one in that condition. BUT I wouldn’t buy anything without seeing it in person. There really are few things to worry about with the old boat, they took care of all the big stuff it seems. I know I the tritons had wooden rudders that needed replacing after 50 years probably, but right at this moment I can’t recall about the vanguard. That’s something to ask about. Given all they did to it, I am guessing they beefed up the mast support, but that’s something to check. I had not heard of ballast coming loose, that’s a new one to me... I would doubt it. Now that is definitely a boat I’d consider but I love the ol’ CCA boats, not everyone does. She’ll sail a bit on her ear but the motion will be nice; keep her loaded with heavy stuff centrally located to minimize any hobby-horsing. Did they say 80’ of chain and 150’ of nylon? That’s not enough in my book but really not a deal breaker! Btw I would not be worried about a little deck delam in that boat, there is a lot of glass in the deck, but it might be a bargaining item

Thank You Don. I actually plan to upgrade the anchoring system. Great point! Would you please explain beefing up the mast system for me. I need this knowledge sir. Thank you! Curious what you mean about ballast coming loose. Please explain. My understanding their are no keel bolts? correct me if wrong! This is important to me. Thanks Don!

[Don C L]

Yeah, no keel bolts but someone else mentioned ballast coming loose. I think he must have been referring to something else. Vanguard has encapsulated lead like mine. Oh and it did have the wooden rudder originally, you might check to see if it was rebuilt. As far as the mast support, I'm not sure exactly on the Vanguard, you should ask. I have a friend with one right behind me but I have never talked about whether he has done anything with the mast support. Next time I see him I'll query him on the topic. My ol' boat, of the same vintage and building style, needed that surgery.
There is an interesting discussion of Vanguards at this site too:
Pearson Vanguard 33 reviews? - SailNet Community
Remember it is people's opinions, and how good a boat is depends on what you plan to do with her and how she feels to YOU. Coastal cruising I'd say it's a very good choice for the money, but at the same time that kind of design would not be my first choice for a downwind tradewind trip to Hawaii. Neither would mine either, but I love it for what I do with it now. They certainly can handle it, but the narrow CCA hulls tend to roll a bit when dead downwind and a flatter bottom fin keel will of course be faster. Just a comfort and speed thing DDW. Every boat is a compromise to some extent.
I did a search for Vanguards and I see there are a couple others in beautiful shape out there, one in Vancouver. It says a lot about a design that some folks are willing to put so much into them to keep 'em going!

[chris95040]

Originally Posted by Don C L

Yeah, no keel bolts but someone else mentioned ballast coming loose. I think he must have been referring to something else. Vanguard has encapsulated lead like mine.

No, I was not referring to something else, I was referring to a Vanguard that ended up in pieces in the dumpster after the internal ballast broke loose, although if you have an internally ballasted boat I can understand you wanting to plug your ears for that story.

It was relayed to me, but its easy to imagine how it happened: The vanguards have a few voids in the keel that notoriously end up filled with water, many owners end up installing drains for them. Even though lead ballast won't rust like cast iron, freeze/thaw cycles of the water in those voids could easily do some damage. As I recall, the ballast was installed after the keel shell was molded up and was supported with foam and wood, builders sure do love an achilles heel...

Personally this story has always soured me on internal ballast, no way to inspect whats supporting the keel. Failure is a rare occurrence I'm sure, but one you have no real way to mitigate.

[chris95040]

Originally Posted by topfish

Curious what you mean about ballast coming loose. Please explain. My understanding their are no keel bolts?

Post #8, and then more info/speculation at Post #17.

Originally Posted by topfish

Would you please explain beefing up the mast system for me. I need this knowledge sir. Thank you!

The deck stepped mast of the vanguard sits between two bulkheads. The span between the two bulkheads is bridged by a steel box/truss on deck to distribute the weight to the bulkheads. The downward force of a mast under load far exceeds the weight of the mast, this box can expect to see several thousand pounds of force.

That mast support box has rusted out and failed on many Vanguards resulting in damage to the cabin top as the mast's compressive load is no longer being handled by the bulkheads.

As long as you inspect that mast support box and replace it BEFORE it fails, it shouldn't be a big deal.

[jimbunyard]

Two things about southern Texas coastal water; it's hot (air and water) humid, and shallow.

Never been to the PNW, but I'd bet that there are a lot more--mmm--opportunities for local sailing than those around the Houston environs.

Don't get me wrong, you may love it; the fishing can be great, but be prepared for hot, humid and flat...

By the way, the boat looks pretty damn good to me, especially if the 5200.00 comes off the top, for a 15000.00 boat.

Don't forget that the bottom was last painted in 2014, almost certainly that needs attention as well...

[Sailmonkey]

You mentioned that you thought 20hp was underpowered.

It’s not. The waterline is very short, the boat is only going to move so fast anyway under power. The original A4 would only make 15-20 hp anyway, so you’re not down on power.

I owned a 1966 vanguard for several years with the A4, great boat. Wonderful sailor, likes to beat at 20-25 degrees of heel.

I would not keep this boat in Texas, there’s just not much to do here destination wise.