Beneteau 38

[robert sailor]

Here's my point, racers have the shape for speed and it obviously works and very well as these boats are faster than the new breed of cruising Cats.
Cruisers have this shape for interior space and the great room cockpits. Wonderful Med and Caribbean boats, I like them and I have no issues with Benny as they are a market leader and they didn't get there by not knowing what buyers wanted. As the other poster suggested he moved back to mono hulls because he could finally get the room he wanted, makes good sense to me.
My point is that these are all fine boats designed with the customer and sailing styles in mind. In the right conditions they sail quite well and generally are faster than hulls from years ago but they are not anything like an open 60 offshore racer.

[RKsailsolo]

DDabs, that's right on topic so thanks for that insight. I missed the other design in Miami but won't miss it again now that you mention it. This is a great thread attracting experts all in their own right.

Don't need land in FL unless it's got a dock with no fixed bridges to ocean, and I won't literally apply open class design specs in comparison but I will appreciate these similarities especially as new distinctions influence my next boat selection.

But wait, the latest crop of sub 40 production monohulls cannot sail faster than a well balanced similar sized production cruising cat. Yes, getting close to weather but not on all points. Can you tell that I would enjoy being proven wrong on that one?

[RKsailsolo]

Polux, that's some awesome documentation you provided on comparison of design cues. Now you have me interested in the Jeanneau after seeing it dry out on its own keel and rudders. Looks like the Ocyeanis 38 can't do that. That's what I like about the small cruising cats.

[robert sailor]

I said the racing monos were faster than the cruising Cats.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by DDabs

Don't want to really get off-topic, but at the Miami show I looked at the new line of Salona yachts, which seemed very on par with Beneteau and Jeanneau. Keel-stepped masts mounted to a steel frame, set up for more of racing than Beneteau/Jeanneau, but really beautiful interiors as well.

Not quite since they are very different boats, kind of a First 40 with a better cruising interior, much better storage and a good anchor locker.

I test sailed one and it is an wonderful boat able to sail with very light wind. That boat can be ordered in epoxy with a lead keel and a bigger mast but even on the most downgraded version is a great boat. One of the things it has (and all should have) are waterproof bulkheads on the bow and the stern. In that one you can have a big problem with the rudder that the water is not coming inside the boat.

For me I would clearly prefer the Salona but I have to admit that the oceanis has not only a much nicer interior (and bigger) as it is easier to sail, specially downwind and sails with a lot less heel.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by RKsailsolo

Polux, that's some awesome documentation you provided on comparison of design cues. Now you have me interested in the Jeanneau after seeing it dry out on its own keel and rudders. Looks like the Ocyeanis 38 can't do that. That's what I like about the small cruising cats.

Today there are not really bad boats. The competition is so hard that the bad boats go bankrupt but there are different boats so you have to decide what you want.

On the last post I said that I would prefer the Salona, but that is just me, that know what I like on a boat and my choice can be different than yours and that does not mean that a boat is better or worse than another, just that we appreciate and value different things on a sailboat.

The Salona will offer a good interior and a sailing pleasure (with multiple possible sailing tuning options) and speed that none of the other can offer. If besides cruising sailing is what you like, than in the States the only other option to Salona is the Dehler 38 (you have the J122 or the Bluejacket 40 but at a much higher price).

The Oceanis 38 sails well and have a great interior and lot's of space. The Jeanneau 379 with a short keel like that would not be a match for the Oceanis 38 in what regards sailing unless they start mounting on it the new swing keel that is an option on the 349. look here:

Interesting Sailboats: MODERN SWING KEEL / MODERN TORPEDO KEEL (SO 349)

Other posts about that there. That keel will give you very low draft and at least the same performance of the standard keel, if not better (some discussion about that).

Another thing you have to look at are prices: there are not bad boats but most come with a minimal equipment and when you start to put equipment on them, even sailing one, to have a good boat, then they are not inexpensive anymore and the most expensive standard boat can turn out to be the less expensive after all.

On the blog a "member" is interested on the Oceanis 38 and compared the price of an Oceanis 38 equipped the same way with the price of a Dehler 38, that has a much higher base price. Well now both boats costed about the same, the Dehler was even marginally less expensive and with better sailing hardware.

Of course this was in Europe and it is not necessarily true in The US but what is true is that you should ask for prices of the boats and equipment and then have all the boats with the equipment you want (the same to all) and only then compare prices. Besides that if the dealer sees that you are interested in several boats and are choosing on a price criteria they will offer you a good discount.

[RKsailsolo]

Dehler, Jeanneau are really nice, but Oceanis still gets my vote. She is a US built vessel and I've been to the plant. Domestic dealers may have slight advantage worth looking into. Thanks for the info on the swinging keel, just what's needed for Bahamas trips.

[CaptHaddock]

No handrails and it looks like IKEA.........

[RKsailsolo]

Yep, that's right. I like Ikea. After I cruise it a couple of times, I'll know exactly where to place the handrails.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by CaptHaddock

No handrails and it looks like IKEA.........

If you walk into a modern urban European home you will see fitted furniture like that especially in kitchens. Some of it is very very high end , and well different internally to Ikea. European design runs to this type of taste and that's where the design cues are coming from.

So at the moment dark is out , the trend is towards light timbers and modern laminates, smooth handle-less design etc etc. go into any high end German kitchen show rooms and you'll understand the design.

Dave.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[RKsailsolo]

Lagoon 39.takes same design influence

[robert sailor]

I have been in the housing business my whole life so I am more than familiar with home designs. Kitchen designs move around and certainly the modern interiors are in vogue but while square edges are cheaper they are not the best on a sailboat being used to sail.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

I have been in the housing business my whole life so I am more than familiar with home designs. Kitchen designs move around and certainly the modern interiors are in vogue but while square edges are cheaper they are not the best on a sailboat being used to sail.

Finally something in what we agree...but I don't understand why you sat that regarding the Oceanis 380 since it is not the case:

[Cheechako]

I guess one question I have about the modular design. How is it attached to the hull? Or is it at all? I have personally seen whole galley cabinets that were tabbed in construction come loose from the hull from heavy weather. To me, it is the minimum acceptable furniture installation....Is this concept as good or much worse than that?

[TeddyDiver]

hmm... There's a reason looking for weather windows less than 15kn becoming so popular.