Searunner or Norman Cross

[wongai64]

Hi all
Im new to sailing and want to buy a trimaran. My research leads me to a tri for affordable stability and suitability for coastal cruising. A cat would be nice but i simply dont have the money for anything decent in Australia. There are however some Nice Tri's out there which seem sensibly priced. I dont intend living on board for any longer than a few weeks at a time but that may change if and when the mood or need arises. Can someone please advise what the inherent differences are between a Norm Cross design and a Searunner? Are there structural/ build differences which define seakeeping abilities? Given the age of an affordable one of either of the two, what structural stresses should i be looking out for? How much would new rigigng and sails cost if i found a decent hull professionally built? Is anyone aware of Insurance availability for Tri's and with whom?
I like the look of both and want a yacht suitable for me to learn on and still be happy with in 10 years time. My budget is around the 50K mark.
Although new to sailing, I have been boating all my life and crewed multihull motor yachts as engineer and electrician so on that side of yachting i am competent.. Sails and rigging...different story.. I look forward to any and all advice which comes my way.. Thanks in advance to all those who contribute

[Cavalier MK2]

They are both well designed boats, Structurally in good condition both can go anywhere. I'd suggest the Cross as it is less likely to have the maintenance problems and rot traps of the Searunner. The angled underwings of a Searunner present a flat surface to wave tops as the boat heels causing earlier pounding, they also require bunk floors and countertops for level surfaces which increase weight and add to the rot problem. The flat underwing of most Cross designs presents an angled surface to the waves as the boat heels lessening any impacts. The LAR keel of the Cross won't be as fast to windward but it will do the job. If you find a Searunner in good condition don't be afraid of it as they are good boats. Just be aware of the things to look for, the divided layout and centerboard trunk created air circulation problems if the boats are stored closed up tight.

[wongai64]

Thanks for the feedback. There is a 37 searunner available in Australia for $60K. Apparently built professionally in New Zealand, west system, and comes recommended by a trusted source. I think i would prefer a cross if I could find the right one but certainly would snap up a quality build Searunner also. There is a 52 ft extended Cross for sale in Panama but it is way too big for my level of experience and ongoing maintneance budget! A nice looking Cross 40 just sold here also for $120K. I cant find any other Cross's or Searunners for sale in Oz. Are there other Tri designs i should be considering? I have read forum threads on Piver and Nichol's and have googled the designs but cant find a comparison on them ( as yet).
I assume that the Cross 40 was a bargain as it got snapped up quite quickly. The Searunner has been on the market for some time now which i will take as some indication of perceived value or perhaps even inherent problems? I will keep pestering the broker till they reply!

[Cavalier MK2]

Nicols can be great boats and were designed for OZ, most were built quite awhile ago and need to be surveyed carefully like all wood boats. The Nicol plan thread on Boatdesign.net has a lot of information. Pivers can get the job done but are 1st generation designs, still apt to be the least expensive boats but very 60s looking. You should check into some of the Lock Crowther tris over there too. He continued Aussie tris after Nicol. I recently saw a well euipped Cross advertised in Mexico for about 30,000 in Latitude 38 magazine. Also look for Horstman tris. Well built and cared for tris can be a lot of boat for the money these days plus you can pass most of the cruising cats if you don't overload. If you are looking on Yachthub check the Granger 36 listed as well.

[Factor]

Originally Posted by wongai64

I cant find any other Cross's or

I will be listing a Cross 38 this week. Nice boat. PM me if you want details

[wongai64]

Originally Posted by Factor

I will be listing a Cross 38 this week. Nice boat. PM me if you want details

Thanks, please email me details. pauldotcapon at hotmaildotcom

[wongai64]

I was discussing my search for an affordable multihull today and lamenting the cost of a decent cat. I was told to research "Wharram"s My understanding of them is that they are predominately homebuilt and can offer vastly varying degrees of build quality? There are a few for sale in Oz but they all seem to have no wet weather friendly deck living or piloting space. Are they a well handling craft and how well do they sail to windward.. Is it possible to retrofit a deck saloon/pilothouse?

[HapaPops]

I'm in a similar position as my very nice trailerable tri has likely sold. There is a very nice Searunner 40 for sale here on the west coast of the US, and I'm thinking of taking a good, long look, but that's a pretty big boat. I'm a bit concerned about getting out for daysails on a true blue-water cruiser.

There's a great Searunner 34 for sale in Mexico - but has an outboard off the transom, delivering up the Pacific Coast into the prevailing northerlies might kill the boat and crew.

There's a Marples 40 project boat in LA that looks like a great design, long and lean, but looks to be a big project.

If only I had an extra $100k lying around.

[snort]

Kantola trimarans would be another to add to the mix. They are rarer than the Crosses and Searunners, but have a good reputation.

[Sand crab]

If you do a YW Wharram search you will find a few with biminis and dodgers. I'll bet Google image will turn up more.

[Cavalier MK2]

Wharram offers retrofit plans for most of their models to update beam designs and add a steering pod cabin with shelter. If you add windage adding a board or a LAR keel.should be considered . Just don't tell James Wharram ! Most of the boats you are looking at are home built so check the materials and workmanship carefully as there can be quite a range in quality.

[andreas.mehlin]

Originally Posted by Factor

I will be listing a Cross 38 this week. Nice boat. PM me if you want details

Can u email me details, location and price?
Sailorcap82 (at) gmail . Com

[srguy77781]

HI there ! Do you know if the Marples is still for sale in LA? If so can you direct me to the listing....Thanks....Rich

[Pat Ross]

It is great to see the interest in older well maintained designs. The benefits of multihulls are more than just being "faster". We made the decision for an older well maintained tri for the same financial reasons mentioned here. I think any of them mentioned here are worth taking a good look. I think the Marple's is gone.

Giving that one has the ability to sail larger multihulls and understands the challenges, the issue around size of multihull remains "the weight of payload you wish to carry". You do have to go with a larger multihull waterline length, as compared to a monohull's waterline length to carry the SAME payload.

Cross and Horstman developed a evaluation tool to help would-be owners and builders determine the size of boat they would need. You can go to http://mysite.verizon.net/res78939/id5.html and request the Cross Evaluation Tool and I think you can contact Ed Horstman to get his tool Ed Horstman Designs

Even if you are not planning on purchasing those specific designs you can compare what each designer thinks, albeit their approaches are different, it helps you conceptualize what you need.


So our boat has a waterline length of 38.5 with a LOD of 41. I think she is comparable in payload to LWL 35 and LOD 37 of a monohull but with immeasurably more room and comfort and with the sail handling qualities of a larger ocean going monohull. She is no speed demon and moves as well or better than her monohull peers of similar waterline length.

The nice part of considering these boats is they do not, for the most part blow the budget, and if one is prudent they can come away with a really fine boat, they own

[sailronin]

Cross and Kantola designs are mostly double diagonal planked (similar to cold molded) vs. the Brown designs which are plywood sheet construction. As mentioned about a well maintained version of either type will be OK but sheet plywood boats have more tendency to have "rot pockets" hidden away. Any older multihull needs a careful survey of the aka connections, areas of poor ventilation in the bow and stern of the amas, and chainplates and mast steps.
Given the choice an epoxy boat will have fewer de-lamination problems than a boat with polyester coating.

Design philosophy was different between Brown and Cross, Brown with center cockpits and aft galley and dinette and centerboard, while Norm (Cross) used to ask why you would build a boat to live in just half of it? Cross also designed a modified fin keel that he felt added stiffness to the main hull and kept the rig tighter.

Good luck