Catalac 9M or Prout Quest 33 ?

[smj]

Originally Posted by Canibul

We looked at a lot of boats for a long time. Years. I got into arguments with Rick about Gemini's. I looked at some Prouts, Admirals, PDQ's, Gemini's, MaineCats, and studied specs and layouts and generally over researched it until my wife was ready to scream. Rick's site convinced me to add Catalac to the list of potentials. Then "Caymanifique" came on the market and we looked at the photos and specs again and realized that this boat might just be the best compromise for our intended purposes. We didn't get that one, but jumped on the next opportunity and scooted up to look at two for sale in FL at the same time. We went with the 12M, but the build quality is the same with all of them. Twin diesels are going to be more drag than the drive leg of the Prout, but there are tradeoffs. We can motorsail at around 7 knots on one engine, burning half a gallon an hour. The maneuverability of a twin engine cat compared to a single is not really even a comparison. Windage will get ya eventually with that single leg, too. And what's your backup when the widget falls off?

Is head and elbow room important to you? Or are you more into the fastest boat you can sail? You just need to define the mission. For us, it was a Catalac. They're a vanishing breed. They literally just don't make them like that any more. Too competitive now. Faster and lighter and Moorings sets the standards.

To start of I do like Catalacs so don't take this in the wrong way.
The single diesel with sonic drive is extremely maneuverable, almost as maneuverable as a twin diesel and in some ways more so as you can direct the thrust were you want it. You would have to try one and get used to it to realize this.
The construction methods they use in catamarans nowadays is much more costly in both time and materials than the way Catalacs are built. I am of course talking about the construction of hulls, bridgedeck and decks, not the interior fit out where I'm sure the Catalac wins out.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Tropic Cat]

Originally Posted by Wandering

We will have to agree to disagree. I have spent several years cruising in company with Catalacs and the
Prout out performed the Catalacs in every way accept motoring. .....

Disclaimer: I run the Catalac Website:

Big difference in sailing to weather between the early Catalacs and the Type IIs (around 1981). Also, there's no substitute for knowing your boat and how to get the most from her.

Your comments are noted, but I disagree. I sail in many different catamarans in the course of a given year and I probably have more tropical sailing hours in Catalacs than most. I even sailed Canibul's Catalac 12M one sunny afternoon. I've certainly been on Prouts and can compare the boats.

As for quality, there are Catalacs crossing the Atlantic these days which used to be the territory of Prouts. (see my website)

Lastly, I've seen too many tired old Prouts that are just not aging as well as it appears you think they are. Which begs the question, which Prout model did you own and which out sailed which model Catalac and when?

[Tropic Cat]

Originally Posted by smj

To start of I do like Catalacs so don't take this in the wrong way.
The single diesel with sonic drive is extremely maneuverable, almost as maneuverable as a twin diesel and in some ways more so as you can direct the thrust were you want it. ...

I tried this on a Prout 37 just last month in a tight marina. There is no way that single engine compares to twin diesels.

[Wandering]

I would agree that single engine is inferior but it's not a major problem either. I suspect anybody could manoeuvre a twin engine quite easily. The single engine with drive leg requires practise and completely new techniques.

[smj]

Originally Posted by Tropic Cat

I tried this on a Prout 37 just last month in a tight marina. There is no way that single engine compares to twin diesels.

Your right.......if you have no experience with the single engine drive leg. With experience it comes pretty close to being as maneuverable.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[atoll]

Originally Posted by Wandering

I would agree that single engine is inferior but it's not a major problem either. I suspect anybody could manoeuvre a twin engine quite easily. The single engine with drive leg requires practise and completely new techniques.

thanks for the feed back re:mast lenth

i recently had to turn the prout around in a narrow estuary,with the drive leg locked,ie no steering on the leg,with 2 knots of current running.........now that was fun!


see the thread highlighted under my message about fitting out my prout.....they don't come much lighter than mine.......nor gaff rigged!

welcome to the forum!

[Wandering]

This the Snowgoose37. 1981 model. These weigh 5 ton plus about 1ton of gear onboard. This one has a 48ft mast. I have never come across another with such a tall mast. I think it helps with performance. We took her on an Atlantic circuit in 04/05. In my opinion they are the best Prout built. This is the pre Elite model. The elite offers greater comfort but is heavier. They are completely different hull mouldings.
The Elite tends to have the nacelle permanently in the water. The pre elite model has a narrower nacelle and doesn't touch the water when moored unless overloaded

[CatalacOwner]

Originally Posted by smj

To start of I do like Catalacs so don't take this in the wrong way.
The single diesel with sonic drive is extremely maneuverable, almost as maneuverable as a twin diesel and in some ways more so as you can direct the thrust were you want it. You would have to try one and get used to it to realize this.
The construction methods they use in catamarans nowadays is much more costly in both time and materials than the way Catalacs are built. I am of course talking about the construction of hulls, bridgedeck and decks, not the interior fit out where I'm sure the Catalac wins out.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

"The construction methods they use in catamarans nowadays is much more costly in both time and materials than the way the Catalacs are built."

I have no idea what you mean by this. Of course the construction today is more costly. So is construction of a house. I hope you don't intend to assert the "quality" is better today, since my 1983 Catalac is kept in the water year round here in Florida and has never, I repeat has never, had a blister. The hull is all fiberglass, not the crap that is laid out with mats that leave air pockets resulting in blistering from the inside out.

If you are only talking about "cost", though I see no relevance or purpose to such a comparison, then you are correct. If you equate cost with quality, there's not much I can say.

I like Prouts, and I think they compare quite favorably withr the Catalac. I have owned my Catalac for thirteen years. I have kept it through three other boats purchased for specialized uses. The Catalac is the only boat I have ever owned, or probably ever will, that doesn't fit within the old adage that a boat is a whole in the water into which you throw your money. The twin Yanmars are still like new, the hull condition is excellent, even the paint isn't bad, though I admit to having been negligent in its care.

The cost of building the Catalac was undoubtedly less than the cats constructed today, but the quality of today's boats is also undoubtedly less than the Catalacs built by Tom Lack. But then, that's just an opinion having been formed over many years of examining cats from many different manufacturers. Catalacs aren't sleek and sexy, but they are built like a tank and will take good care of even the most inexperienced of sailors.

[smj]

Originally Posted by CatalacOwner

"The construction methods they use in catamarans nowadays is much more costly in both time and materials than the way the Catalacs are built."

I have no idea what you mean by this. Of course the construction today is more costly. So is construction of a house. I hope you don't intend to assert the "quality" is better today, since my 1983 Catalac is kept in the water year round here in Florida and has never, I repeat has never, had a blister. The hull is all fiberglass, not the crap that is laid out with mats that leave air pockets resulting in blistering from the inside out.

If you are only talking about "cost", though I see no relevance or purpose to such a comparison, then you are correct. If you equate cost with quality, there's not much I can say.

I like Prouts, and I think they compare quite favorably withr the Catalac. I have owned my Catalac for thirteen years. I have kept it through three other boats purchased for specialized uses. The Catalac is the only boat I have ever owned, or probably ever will, that doesn't fit within the old adage that a boat is a whole in the water into which you throw your money. The twin Yanmars are still like new, the hull condition is excellent, even the paint isn't bad, though I admit to having been negligent in its care.

The cost of building the Catalac was undoubtedly less than the cats constructed today, but the quality of today's boats is also undoubtedly less than the Catalacs built by Tom Lack. But then, that's just an opinion having been formed over many years of examining cats from many different manufacturers. Catalacs aren't sleek and sexy, but they are built like a tank and will take good care of even the most inexperienced of sailors.

A well built modern cored catamaran today would probably cost more and be much lighter with more strength than a solid fiberglass catamaran of the same design. Therefore they are more costly and probably better suited to what a catamaran is suited for, a light boat that sails on top of the water rather than through the water.
Built like a tank is good? Not in a multihull. For both performance and safety a multi should be both light weight and strong, thus the modern construction techniques. If I wanted to sail a tank I would buy a monohull, a boat which sometimes gains seaworthiness from being overweight.
I still like the Catalacs, but to think they compare to either the build techniques or sailing characteristics of some of the modern catamarans is crazy.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Wandering]

Originally Posted by smj

A well built modern cored catamaran today would probably cost more and be much lighter with more strength than a solid fiberglass catamaran of the same design. Therefore they are more costly and probably better suited to what a catamaran is suited for, a light boat that sails on top of the water rather than through the water.
Built like a tank is good? Not in a multihull. For both performance and safety a multi should be both light weight and strong, thus the modern construction techniques. If I wanted to sail a tank I would buy a monohull, a boat which sometimes gains seaworthiness from being overweight.
I still like the Catalacs, but to think they compare to either the build techniques or sailing characteristics of some of the modern catamarans is crazy.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I agree entirely. Most catamaran sailors do not take weight seriously enough. I have seen so many overweight Prout and Catalacs that sail like a pig due to being overloaded. These are heavy boats even before you load them with anything. Consequently you have to be extra weight conscious.
We lightened our Prout with extensive use of foam core panels.

[valhalla360]

I think a lot of this depends on your focus. It's trading durability and toughness for performance.

For racing, a modern cat can be stripped down and take advantage of that light weight construction to outperform an older boat.

Once you load them up for cruising, the difference is more marginal and as the old saying goes, gentlemen don't go to weather. Even loaded up, you will still pass a lot of mono's.

Set your priorities and pick the boat that fits.

[CatalacOwner]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

I think a lot of this depends on your focus. It's trading durability and toughness for performance.

For racing, a modern cat can be stripped down and take advantage of that light weight construction to outperform an older boat.

Once you load them up for cruising, the difference is more marginal and as the old saying goes, gentlemen don't go to weather. Even loaded up, you will still pass a lot of mono's.

Set your priorities and pick the boat that fits.

Thank you for the words of wisdom. I couldn't agree more. My priorities are safety, durability, low maintenance, and relaxed enjoyment. Speed wouldn't make the top 100 on my list. The commenter above who stated anyone would be crazy to compare the quality of today's production boats with a catalac is quite correct, though I am certain we would hold very different views as to which opinion is "off course".

I enjoy listening to the folks at the local yacht club detailing the thousands of dollars they spend to get just another quarter of a knot from their boats. My joy is the money I don't need to spend to enjoy being on the water. To each his own. Let the racers run and the cruisers travel. I punch no time clocks in my life. The destination and the time to travel are of little importance - for me its all about enjoying the trip. But I appreciate many others don't have this freedom, or may have very different goals. To each his own.

Which is better? You have given the only true answer, i.e. whichever you prefer.

[smj]

Originally Posted by CatalacOwner

Thank you for the words of wisdom. I couldn't agree more. My priorities are safety, durability, low maintenance, and relaxed enjoyment. Speed wouldn't make the top 100 on my list. The commenter above who stated anyone would be crazy to compare the quality of today's production boats with a catalac is quite correct, though I am certain we would hold very different views as to which opinion is "off course".

I enjoy listening to the folks at the local yacht club detailing the thousands of dollars they spend to get just another quarter of a knot from their boats. My joy is the money I don't need to spend to enjoy being on the water. To each his own. Let the racers run and the cruisers travel. I punch no time clocks in my life. The destination and the time to travel are of little importance - for me its all about enjoying the trip. But I appreciate many others don't have this freedom, or may have very different goals. To each his own.

Which is better? You have given the only true answer, i.e. whichever you prefer.

You really need to learn how to read before you start quoting people.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[CatalacOwner]

Little too much coffee this morning?

Thank you for your advice. I will seek to improve my skills.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by smj

You really need to learn how to read before you start quoting people.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Huh??