Whats the best windvane?

[CarinaPDX]

Originally Posted by Don C L

I wonder how many folks would say they have never had an AP fail at an inopportune moment?

True that APs fail. In my case many times - I am pretty good now at rebuilding my tiller drive with scavenged parts from previous failures and new motors. Cockpit autopilots - wheel and tiller - are notoriously unreliable. And of course they tend to fail in heavy going, when hand steering is an unattractive prospect.

My wind vane failure, right in the middle of the North Atlantic, was with my cantilevered trim tab (my construction, not the vane manufacturer's). A large quartering wave started a yaw, which resulted in an extreme trim tab angle, putting a sideways load on it and it snapped off. It was 1"x6"x6' ash, with the unsupported length of about 3-1/2'. Part of the problem was that the trim tab was larger than it should have been: my fault. It is rare for a factory-built vane to fail in use, other than by hitting flotsam.

Greg

[Mike Banks]

I hear about autopilots being "Overpowered" by heavy weather. I had an hydraulic autopilot used during some of the worst of conditions, and never once did it become unable to turn the rudder.

Of course these systems use power--and quite a lot of it in heavy weather--but power is a different issue to being unable to function in rough weather. A wind air foil generator will probably use most of its output running a hydraulic autopilot in bad weather. During rough conditions is the very time it MUST function, if the person on watch is not to become exhausted and unable to perform effectively any other duties in regards to sails or tackle.

[Boatguy30]

Guy is selling the South Atlantic 440 on classifieds. Looks to have a decent amount of rust on all the stainless bits and some seem undersized. Sell on eBay for $1600.

[Dulls]

I would say the Aries has the best reputation. Have no idea how they really compare to others. I had a no 5 and it was great but could not tell you if it was the best. It did what it should have done.

[hpeer]

Some musings.

A FEW boats are built with a WN in mind. I have seen 2 besides mine that are 44’ center cockpits with wheel steering but also where the rudder post protrudes through the aft deck with a stub tiller. The service pendulum is then attached to the tiller stub. So you have a servo pendulum on a cc with no lines to the cock out. Except the “snaffle lines” used on the Aries to adjust it.

I have adapted a RayMarine 2000 tiller pilot to drive the Aries, works a treat as long as the AP works, which in my experience, is not long. Ditch the RM. I have done the same with a Pealigic, now there is some nice kit.

There is one WV that uses control cables, not a direct linkage. That WV can mount the wind vane paddle up high above the davits, and off center. I have seen this at a boat show. It may well be Auto-Helm because they will sell their game separate from the rest of the rig.

So you can adapt a tiller pilot to bot a servo pendulum WV AND to a aux rudder wind game. But they act differently. The SP provides very little resistance to the TP. And it steers they boat. And if you have some weather helm then you need to pay close attention to the sail trim. You can partially adjust for this by moving the tiller to chain connection over a few links to provide some bias. The thing to remember is a SP WV is turning the rudder. IMHO a Pealigic AP driving a AR WV would be a very hard combination to beat. But I would also like a Peleagic couple with my Aries.

In a auxiliary rudder (AR) set up are steering with the auxiliary rudder NOT the main rudder. The aux rudder can be smaller because it’s way out aft and has more of a lever arm. So you lock the main rudder and let the aux rudder steer. Now you can attach a short tiller arm/stub to the AR and steer with that. There will be a lot more pressure and you will use more amps but still doable. Now if you get some weather helm it’s still best to achieve proper trim, but if you can’t well then just unlock the rudder and correct for the helm and lock it back in again. If you are motoring and your boat has a lot of prop walk, it’s just like weather helm. Take the prop walk out with the main rudder and lick it down. Now you can motor and the little TP is not feeling the prop walk.

The AR rudder MAY also help you in Marina’s, but I find it like ballet on ice with a peg leg.


We have 2 boats, and 2 different types of WV: a Belcher AR on the 33’er and an Aries on the 44’er. Both work well.

[slug]

Originally Posted by Mike Banks

I hear about autopilots being "Overpowered" by heavy weather. I had an hydraulic autopilot used during some of the worst of conditions, and never once did it become unable to turn the rudder.

Of course these systems use power--and quite a lot of it in heavy weather--but power is a different issue to being unable to function in rough weather. A wind air foil generator will probably use most of its output running a hydraulic autopilot in bad weather. During rough conditions is the very time it MUST function, if the person on watch is not to become exhausted and unable to perform effectively any other duties in regards to sails or tackle.

Autopilots get Overpowered in heavy going

This overwork will cause failure

Power reaching is a weak spot for any autopilot or windvane

I’ve never known a windvane that steers better than an autopilot

A wind vanes advantage is that it uses no power and has very few components that fail

[MicHughV]

I bought a "used" monitor from a salvage yard, so it's prior history was unknown to me.

Nonetheless, I mounted it on the stern of my steel Roberts 38 ketch, where it lived happily for almost 15 years. This is now some 30-40 years ago.

My only bugaboo about it was, that due to my boat being a center cockpit, the steering cables had to come a long way to the steering pedestal and when engaged, the cables ran over my lazarette hatch, so I could not get in there, when the Monitor was engaged.

Anticipating some " stretch" in the steering cables, I made the steering cables from light s.s. vinyl covered 7x19 cable fitted with a small turnbuckle so I could remove the cables when not in use and also tension the cables when in use.

I also " experimented" with different size vane blades, I had a small vane, a medium size, and super size vane and depending on wind direction and speed would chose a vane blade accordingly. Running dead downwind , the super size vane was used.....hard on the wind, the smaller one, etc.

I was quite happy with it. The trick is to first balance your boat for whatever point of sail you are on, and then engage the vane. Large seas will affect the surface wind which in turn will effect vane behavior.

The Monitor, like most vane gears cannot " anticipate" wind direction or speed, so your boat will wander a bit. To help facilitate this, I would harden up the sails a tad more than needed, so if the vane caused the boat to head up a tad, I would not get that annoying flutter or luff in the sail.

Besides the monitor, I also had a small wheel mounted electric autopilot, which did surprisingly well, in modest conditions.

My boat was ketch rigged and there were occasional moments when wind coming off the mizzen would mess with the vane, but the circumstances surrounding this, I never understood, as it was clearly evil spirits at work..

Vane gears sail to the wind, so if the wind direction changes a bit, so will your course...

All told, for what it is, it's a marvelous tool, it will steer all day long and never bitch about it, but does require a learning curve, and will work quite well in just about any wind conditions, though there were times, when it had to be disengaged and the boat had to hand steered.

I've attached a pic for your consideration.

I rarely see vane gears these days. Solar panels and rudder mounted auto-pilots is pretty much the auto-pilot of choice these days, but back in the day, solar panels were simply not available to me.

Trust this gives some food for thought.

[roverhi]

Over the years have had an Aries, Monitor, Wind Pilot Pacific Plus, Wind Pilot Pacific Light, and a Sailomat. All have pretty much worked as advertised. The Aries, Monitor, Wind Pivot Pacific Light and Sailomat are pendulum servo vanes using the boat's rudder to steer the boat with the force and input supplied by the vane. Think the Servo Pendulum type of vane is the most sensitive as it gains power and sensitivity as the boat speed and wind increase making steering more of a challenge. They work best with tiller steering but many boats with wheels have been steered just fine with them including ones 50' or larger. The negative for most people is the steering lines running to the helm. Was never a problem for me and can be rigged so the lines only run up one side of the boat so they don't obstruct..

Being able to swing the rudder out of the water is a nice to have feature and actually fairly common on WindPilot's, CapHorn, Sailomat etc. The rudder on the Monitor has a rather complicated hinge feature that also allows the servo rudder to be raised. Did more than 10,000 miles with the fixed servo rudder Aries. Just disconnected the steering lines from the tiller and forgot about it. Had only one problem when it picked up a kelp forest off SoCal and the rudder breakaway safety coupling worked as advertised. Believe the newer Aires have some form of a hinge to raise the rudder.

Did a TransPac with WindPilot Pacific Plus auxiliary rudder vane. 15 days almost exclusively DDW in 8 knots or less relative wind. That's the absolute worst conditions for a vane as the following seas slew the stern around while the relative wind is so light there isn't much input to the wine vane. The WPPP came through without a hitch. It steered all 2,000+ miles without a complaint turning out 140+ nm/d. Pretty damn good for a 25' waterline boat leisurely running wing and wing. If the boat moves at all under sail the WPPP vane will and does steer the boat.

I've always questioned the Hydrovanes steering ability in light air. With just the wind to do the physical work of turning that large rudder wonder how effectivive it could be with so little force doing the steering. They work but it seems to defy physics. The WindPilot Pacific Plus uses a servo pendulum to supply force to steer the auxiliary rudder and it definitely does not suffer from lack of force in ghosting conditions. I did add an 8" x 4' very light corrugated plastic wind vane to make the vane more sensitive in light conditions. It's the same material that Monitor uses with their light air vanes.

The CapHorn vanes have a rather unique way of routing the control lines that may be of interest to some. You could also have Yves build one that would have the wind vane high above the dinghy on its davits so you could have your dinghy/davits simultaneously with self steering. For me that wouldn't be worth paying for as I think it's foolish to go to sea with a dinghy hanging off the stern. Fine for coastal sailing but a disaster waiting to happen on a passage.

FWIW I hate to drive. The self steering vane takes over as soon as the sails are up and only gets disconnected when they come down. Self steering vanes work just fine for steering inshore as well as off, tacking up narrow channels, coastal sailing, whatever. I'm still trying to figure out how to get my WindPilot to sail the boat into and out of the slip but haven't given up thinking how to do it.

[akopac]

Originally Posted by hpeer

Some musings.

A FEW boats are built with a WN in mind. I have seen 2 besides mine that are 44’ center cockpits with wheel steering but also where the rudder post protrudes through the aft deck with a stub tiller. The service pendulum is then attached to the tiller stub. So you have a servo pendulum on a cc with no lines to the cock out. Except the “snaffle lines” used on the Aries to adjust it.

I have adapted a RayMarine 2000 tiller pilot to drive the Aries, works a treat as long as the AP works, which in my experience, is not long. Ditch the RM. I have done the same with a Pealigic, now there is some nice kit.

There is one WV that uses control cables, not a direct linkage. That WV can mount the wind vane paddle up high above the davits, and off center. I have seen this at a boat show. It may well be Auto-Helm because they will sell their game separate from the rest of the rig.

So you can adapt a tiller pilot to bot a servo pendulum WV AND to a aux rudder wind game. But they act differently. The SP provides very little resistance to the TP. And it steers they boat. And if you have some weather helm then you need to pay close attention to the sail trim. You can partially adjust for this by moving the tiller to chain connection over a few links to provide some bias. The thing to remember is a SP WV is turning the rudder. IMHO a Pealigic AP driving a AR WV would be a very hard combination to beat. But I would also like a Peleagic couple with my Aries.

In a auxiliary rudder (AR) set up are steering with the auxiliary rudder NOT the main rudder. The aux rudder can be smaller because it’s way out aft and has more of a lever arm. So you lock the main rudder and let the aux rudder steer. Now you can attach a short tiller arm/stub to the AR and steer with that. There will be a lot more pressure and you will use more amps but still doable. Now if you get some weather helm it’s still best to achieve proper trim, but if you can’t well then just unlock the rudder and correct for the helm and lock it back in again. If you are motoring and your boat has a lot of prop walk, it’s just like weather helm. Take the prop walk out with the main rudder and lick it down. Now you can motor and the little TP is not feeling the prop walk.

The AR rudder MAY also help you in Marina’s, but I find it like ballet on ice with a peg leg.


We have 2 boats, and 2 different types of WV: a Belcher AR on the 33’er and an Aries on the 44’er. Both work well.

It is the autohelm wind vane that has cables and I have that exact rig with vane mounted off center high and aft on our Davies to clear our Milne sail. Works awesome. I am going to setup a filler pilot eventually on the vane someday. Excuse the boat name. I was halfway through applying it when I took the pic.[emoji41]

[akopac]

Originally Posted by SVTatia

I just received this from Sailomat after requesting a quote:



"Dear customer,

Model SAILOMAT 800 as well as previous models are currently completely sold out. Spare parts still available.

All SAILOMAT deliveries are temporarily suspended as we restructure the company.

Happy sailing

Stellan"



So this must be a tough niche business.



1.Hydrovane

2.Cape Horn

3.Monitor (+ others from Scanmar)

4.Windpilot

5.Aries

6.Holland

7.Windy

8.Neptune

9.Mr Vee

10.Voyager



11.Sailomat

12.Ratcliffe

13.Fleming

14.Norvane

15.Navik

16.Sayes Rig

Did I miss any?



The first 10 are still in business.

Autohelm

[Michael Cobbe]

Long distance saling,10,000 nms, the wiindvane I saw most was the Hydrovane.

[Peter Foerthman]

Good morning to the US,

having followed this interesting discussion I would like to add some information about the market of wind vane steering of which I am participating almost 50 years now ... okay 4 years missing!

During some decades he market has changed slowly, the GOLDEN GLOBE RACE however has been kind of turning point, as it has been the perfect event to show improvements of servo pendulum units in comparison with traditional units. The WIND VANE REPORT has been written 12 months ago.

https://windpilot.com/blog/en/golden...ndvane-report/

The situation of the market of today can be read here:

https://windpilot.com/blog/en/column...-and-copycats/

Breathless? No reason for that as this is the concentrate of my life during almost 5 decades.

Peter Foerthmann
www.windpilot.com

[double u]

3 & 1/3 rtw:
1 x Aries
2 x Atoms
1/3 x Windpilot Pacific
best overall package with respect to
coursekeeping
facility of installation
sturdiness
ease of temorary removal
aesthetics
service:

Windpilot Pacific
(& by a long shot)
(despite all this Kraut perfection grating somewhat on my forest-dweller's soul ;-) )

[double u]

(let me elaborate:
the whole package we received was f-ing perfect down to the little hacksaw supplied to saw off the excess length of the eybolts the drum is fixed to the steering wheel with.
The reply to my first inquiry-email contained an offer for the gear & the necessary mount, a leadtime & a photo of an installation nearly identical to the one our stern demanded.
Windpilot's competitor, initially favoured by me, started with having me send any number of emails with fotos of the stern - serial built boat with pics available on the internet - take any numbers of measurements & came up with a trellis tower totally encumbering the stern of the boat, with a longer leadtime & for considerably more $$ than the WP...
& btw: I have no business interest in promoting the WP & we are not related [a common language separates us...]

[Lazerbrains]

I had a Cape Horn on my last boat and I really enjoyed it. CH has very few moving parts compared to other manufacturers and hence less friction. Mine would steer downwind in 5knts wind, which is very good for a vane. I also like the CH elegant mounting as it doesn't look like a jungle gym on the stern. The mounting design also allows for the control lines to be internally ran to the steering quadrant which eliminates the lines and associated blocks in the cockpit, as well as the fussy-to-set wheel adapters - I'm not aware of any other sp vane that can do that. On my previous boat I had tiller steering but on my current boat I will be installing another. Cape Horn for those reasons. The CH also has provision for an emergency rudder.

That being said, I have sailed with Nordvane, Aries, and Monitor and they all worked well. I like the Windpilot for its ease of mounting. I am surprised at the earlier comments about the commoness of Hydrovane- in my travels the most common by far is the Monitor.