Advice on a Catalina 27

[Sidney777]

Jack Horner(boat surveyor) boat reviews, sailboats and power boats, and Catalina 27

[michaelratinter]

I moved my boat from San Pedro, CA to Bodega Bay, CA. After the move I thought I had a leak in the hatch over the forepeak. It turned out to be condensaton on the backing plate for the inner forestay. Some mold started to grow in the forepeak. We scrubbed away the mold and I put in a dehumidifier set to 60% RH. That solved the problem. Newport has bearly the same humidity as Bodega if I remember correctly. Take a look at internal metal surfaces at 3 a.m.

[foufou]

Mine had plenty of condensation as well as window leaks. Silicone caulk fixed most of it

[jeremiason]

I owned a 1977 Catalina 27 (#3438) for 9 years.

I replaced everything on that boat but the hull, mast and boom.

It was a great learning boat, sailed well on San Francisco Bay and the International Catalina 27/270 Owner's Association is a terrific resource!

With that said, if you have a soft foredeck, it mean water intrusion and an eventual deck replacement. Have an expert look at it before you buy the boat.

There are a number of owner upgrades that were made over the years. The IC27A will help you with that. The big upgrades were, backing plates & U bolts for the shroud anchors; stainless steel spreader brackets and many owners had to replace the wooden bulkheads that the chain plates attach to.

Another great resource for Tech Advice and Parts is Catalina Direct

I wish you good luck, I liked Catalina so well I have owned three of them now (27, 36, 47).

[maplemale]

Went back today and got a picture of the main thing/ only thing really I'm concerned about with this boat...


Not sure if this is really the "deck" per se. Or, more the bulkhead that the anchor pulleys / steam plate is mounted to? LIke I said, appears as though maybe he hit a dock with the bow pulpit railing.

[Sidney777]

Please see jack Horner boat reviews about this. He is a surveyor, not just a looker. Please see and they describe leaks. Your leak may be described. www. Catalina27. .org. Please see.

[Sidney777]

Great post

[maplemale]

Originally Posted by Sidney777

Please see jack Horner boat reviews about this. He is a surveyor, not just a looker. Please see International Catalina 27/270 Association and they describe leaks. Your leak may be described. www. Catalina27. .org

Is this the Jack Hornor review you were talking about? BoatUS - Boat Reviews - Catalina 27


That's useful thank you! And the price information (though a few years old) seems to confirm what I was thinking... I think the reports of the boat being overpriced are a bit out of touch. Also, not sure how meaningful nadaguides is (my local surveyor said for more of the mass produced boats it's pretty accurate). That boat shows $12k as the low price in bad condition (it's not in "bad" condition, i'd rate it good/average at the $14k price).


Regarding the Catalina27.org site... Not really sure what to say about that. To summarize I'd say it's abandoned. Were you getting the forums to pull up at all? Couldn't really see anything that wasn't either broken or just a re-post from somewhere else. Aside from that, the original brochures are interesting. lol

[Sidney777]

Yes that's review. Lots of others also. But, here is a good 2 pages. "Used Boat Notebook" Catalina 27 by John Kretschmer.
Page 2 describes some problems.. but great 2 pages

[jeremiason]

Originally Posted by maplemale

Not sure if this is really the "deck" per se. Or, more the bulkhead that the anchor pulleys / steam plate is mounted to? LIke I said, appears as though maybe he hit a dock with the bow pulpit railing.

The damage may have been caused by the Bow Rail hitting something, but the deck shouldn't have flexed enough to crack the gelcoat.

I would still suggest you have a professional look at the deck before you buy. If it is rotted, it will cost more than the boat is worth to repair.

[SailingFan]

Consider also the fact that so many of your quotes include trailers. That is HUGE around here, because I cannot locate a trailer for a Hunter 27 around here for cheap at all. I am going to have to make one from a trailer that is almost good enough but needs another axle. If a seller is including a trailer, they are not selling you the same vessel because the trailer is a necessary item if you want to move the thing or haul it out without paying high fees for storage while you do things that you could do while she is on a trailer. Just a thought...

[maplemale]

Originally Posted by SailingFan

Consider also the fact that so many of your quotes include trailers. That is HUGE around here, because I cannot locate a trailer for a Hunter 27 around here for cheap at all. I am going to have to make one from a trailer that is almost good enough but needs another axle. If a seller is including a trailer, they are not selling you the same vessel because the trailer is a necessary item if you want to move the thing or haul it out without paying high fees for storage while you do things that you could do while she is on a trailer. Just a thought...

With a trailer, that year, a boat in OK condition, I'm seeing them at around $12k - $16k which seems to be inline with what both the surveyor and guides tell me. Luckily, I don't care about a trailer. If I did, Catalina 27 trailers are actually readily available from used dealers - one is even here in OR and has several, he also rents them.

Originally Posted by jeremiason

The damage may have been caused by the Bow Rail hitting something, but the deck shouldn't have flexed enough to crack the gelcoat.

I would still suggest you have a professional look at the deck before you buy. If it is rotted, it will cost more than the boat is worth to repair.

I'm getting a quote from a local yard to do it... but might tackle it myself if I get the boat.



You think it would cost more than $9k to repair a few inches of rotten deck/core and re-do the top deck? I was thinking maybe $1k if I paid someone else and about $100 if I did it myself.

Shouldn't be too much worse than this: Good Old Boat - Stanchion repair article

[SailingFan]

Regarding repair costs for that rail mounting area, you have core, deck skin (possibly), and a backing plate setup to replace, plus you will have to address whatever is going on inside or you will get a mold and progressive rotting issue you won't like later on, at which point you get the bonus of doing the repair again, but on larger scale.

You also have to either match the new gelcoat with the current material surrounding that damaged area, paint the deck in that area to hide or conceal the repair (I have seen some pretty good jobs of non-skid application that hid damage, but I have seem some real abortions too), or apply some sort of covering to the deck that seals the structural material but may let the repair be more obvious if you aren't worried about cosmetics or resale value. Your choice. You must seal the repair however, because glass alone soaks up water. Epoxy is best, and then put a coat of something over it to keep UV at bay and make it blend into the surrounding area.

That said, the backing plate can be relatively inexpensive, and can be a source for additional strength for bow cleat mounts, etc. It is good to get a large one in there while you have things open though, so you may be opening more than just where the railing mount is, especially since you have to do that anyway to get all the rot out before the deck starts getting spongy from rot that surely is taking up residence.

The core is definitely going to be damaged so the repair will extend beyond the simple cracking you see, likely extending for several inches or even a foot or more in flat directions, depending on how long the crack has been there and how often it has rained, as well as how often the vessel has been sailed (and in what conditions). In the PNW, with all that rain and humidity, I would anticipate more damage than less. Don't assume it is limited to the crack, because that is a fool's bet.

Remember the core can be mud for a pretty substantial distance and the skin thickness of the deck can still have enough resistance to deflection that you won't realize how bad it is until you get "in there". I would offer a rule of thumb, but I have never heard of one that held up when it comes to water intrusion other than there is more damage than people generally expect. Of course, you don't have to have a Bristol new deck either, unless you want it, so...? Best bet is to dig until you hit undamaged core. That can get ugly.

If you repair it yourself, you are probably close on cost only if the damage is limited to what you see, depending on how you finish the repair area off, given that you will use sandpaper, resin buckets, glass, etc., and some sort of covering coating that is cheap. You also have to be able to flex the steel rail to the right location and install new screws, etc. Use stainless screws, of course.

If someone else does it there is no way to know. It will depend on what they use for a backing plate, how large it is, and what else they tear loose (they may insist on repairing more than what you would settle for if you did it yourself for liability reasons and because sometimes it actually is the right thing to do for the safety of the vessel and the good name of the shop) and they often charge 90 bucks an hour (and sometimes more) around here for repair time, likely more per hour when a more highly skilled worker is on that in a formal yard. Materials in this area will be sold to the repair at a profit as well by most repair pros.

Maybe you have a friend in the industry and can arrange a price break? Sometimes they will take off time to consume beverages, yack about sports or other topics, exchange services for hunting rights, and do repairs on the side at a greatly reduced cost for folks they like. At least that is what I have seen here (and have done, on occasion).

Of course, last time I gave someone a great break (under half cost for labor and straight cost for materials), he was mad because he said he thought I was going to "do it for fun, and not as a business venture."

His 25 foot bay boat was little more than a cracked glass outer hull and termite poop, but he insisted that he wanted me to rebuild it, and was stunned when he finally listened to the fact that it would cost more than 3500 bucks to do the rebuild job; of course it was as I finished the tear-out (which is unpredictable until you start peeling the deck away and realize there is only mud under it) and had started on replacing hollowed and cracked stringer shells (the wood itself was mud, roaches, termites, and earthworms) that he finally started listening to me and realized that he was really going to be able to find another used boat for the same money, which is what I had been telling him all along. Of course, that was MY fault? No good deed or good word of advice goes unpunished...

That reminds me, he still owes me some money. I will have to check up on him...

Do your conscience, and good luck either way you go.

[SailingFan]

I took another look at that photo, and have to say, it probably was a dock collision as the other posted offered. I am not thinking it is a thousand dollar repair, though, if the rot is confined to close to the impact area and there is no structural damage to anything but the core near the mount itself. Again, it depends on how long it has been left like that, but you may get out lucky on this one. It would tell more once you dig under that skin and see how far the rot goes.

You may be ok with this one, if that is the extent of things, and you may well pay a grand to have that repaired. I would anticipate that and be pleasantly surprised if it comes in cheaper. I would also negotiate about it with the seller as well, once you get a quote for reference.

[maplemale]

Originally Posted by SailingFan

...I am not thinking it is a thousand dollar repair, though...

After pondering everything you wrote and following a few other similar repairs others have posted... I am kinda wondering this as well. Though, it is winter and the boatyard here seems less busy than normal - go figure. Maybe they'll cut me a deal. I should find out today. Appreciate all the info!


I still may look at this as just a way to start learning and do work myself. Just not sure if I want to tackle it in the winter out here. It's normally warm enough... just rains a lot.