450: Operating/Maintenance costs of 450 vs 500

[oxymo]

Hi guys!

I'm currently in the research phase and plan to by my first catamaran in around 1.5 years from now.
I have narrowed it basically down to a Lagoon 450, but am still tempted towards a slightly bigger boat for different reasons.

Looking at the prices of used 450's and 500's there is not so much difference and one is currently able to get a Lagoon 500 from let's say 2008/2009 for not much more than a Lagoon 450 from 2011/2012

So my main question is if anyone can provide me with information on how much more a Lagoon 500 would cost in annual maintenance/operating costs over a 450.

On forums people usually write things like "the bigger boat will definitely cost much more to operate" but what exactly is this "much more".

I mean looking at normal equipment like water maker, generator, batteries, tender, etc. these will all be pretty much similar and if a water maker breaks on the 500, why should that cost much more to repair than on a 450? Same for the other things like generator, electric winch, deck hatches, etc.

So for me I can currently only think about the obvious things like sails and of course due to the increase in size also the marina costs and things like craning, anti fouling etc. that will be higher.

I checked marina prices and the annual costs for the 500 will be around 2,000 EUR higher than for the 450. Travel lift will be some 200 EUR higher than 450

Any inputs and real life experiences on where a 500 will cost significantly more to operate than a 450?

Cheers,
Robert

[Ulstue]

I can confirm about 20% more costs in Marinas for the L500 in the Med.
Also the price comparison corresponds to my observations. However, you'll receive just an older L500 for the money, which means probably more larger maintenance investments as new sails etc are pending. Otherwise: something is allways.

Of course, it takes more material and working in antifouling and polishing the hull.

And true at least on the Adriatic: the richer they rate you, the greater your boat is, the more they try to take someone to the cleaners… This makes sure another 10% difference in the maintenance and operation costs.

The bigger the boat, the more difficult it is to find a crane that is large enough and at a trusted yard with available dates.

If it does not depend on the additional cabin, the space of the L450 seems to be comparable.
I like the step-free Side-decks of the L 450 - this is accompanied by a greater headroom in the hulls. What is obviously better at the L 500 is the possibility of a larger Dinghy.

[oxymo]

Originally Posted by Ulstue

If it does not depend on the additional cabin, the space of the L450 seems to be comparable.
I like the step-free Side-decks of the L 450 - this is accompanied by a greater headroom in the hulls.

This is interesting
Like I said, I have not been on a L500 yet, so have no direct comparison, but really like the layout and the open feeling of the L450.
So beside the extra cabin, in your opinion there is not a “big” difference in living space between these boats?

The 4th cabin on the L500 is actually almost the main points that is making this boat interesting for me, because with 2 kids we would only have 1 free cabin available on the L450 owner version for family and friend to visit us which is a bit of a problem.
With the L500 in the 4 cabin layout, you still get a kind of owner cabin with more space while having 4 cabins in total, so another family with 2 kids could join us easily.

[boom23]

We have a 3 cabin 450 and we really like it. It is definitely large enough for my wife and I and the occasional visitor. We use the extra 2 cabins for storage, most of the time.

Unless you cruise full time with more than 2 couples, I would look at the 450 more closely.

[Ulstue]

Sure, an L500 IS bigger, (particularly noticeable at the net) - but the open design of the 450 compensates that, especially with the original arrangement of the pantry (as you now find only in the occasion vessels) and due to the flat outer surfaces and the open cockpit, especially when compared with the L440 or L500.


We have a L450 owner version, and yes, sometimes there could be a cabin more, but this is rare. The 450 is the only model in which one has a larger lying area in the cockpit. I love it for that. If many guests are on board, you can theoretically build up a double berth in the salon – but usually we solve that “problem” in the way that our two children sleeping in the owner-cabin, and my wife and I outside, what we love anyway.
Guests can then have the two portside cabins - or, of course they can also sleep outside. I think outside the L450 has more usable deck space than the L500, - not only because of the flat side-decks, but because of the “bed” in the cockpit and the lying area on the salon roof, which I have not seen on any L500. (It seems to me, place for that would be there …)



Our youngest (9 years old) sleep sometimes on the bench in the owner cabin, what we extend then a littlebit under the desk. But he can’t do that with 10 I think. Sometimes I think about to build a temporary berth over the bench and the desktop in Owner cabin. - but most time there is enough space on board, daytime anyway.

The L450 is to handle very well for us as not incredibly experienced couple - but my neighbor in the marina sails his L 500 single handed.

[Emerald Sea]

Your best bet is to approach a charter company who operates both 450's and 500's. Its gonna be a long shot that you find an owner who has had both and can respond to your question about comparative operating costs.

[Bean Counter]

The cost differentials will all add up:
1. Longer LOA means higher dockage - per foot 5/45 = 11%
2. Wider Beam, fewer and more expensive haul out solutions
3. Greater weight - so more power - engines and sails are bigger (eg L500 with 75HP turbocharged Yanmars will cost more to run and maintain than same sized motor but normally aspirated 54Hp in L450). Fuel consumption on a boat with almost 50% more horsepower will be bit higher (but unlikely 50% higher, say 20%?) . If same size engines option, then fuel consumption will still be higher with greater weight, but probably not a very big difference, but you may wish you had more power at times.
4. Mast and rigging more cost for repair and replacement (look at potential rig wire replacement at year 10)
5. Older boat, more gear failure as end of useful life approaches on various components (eg, Sail drive diaphragms, hoses, electronics and so on)
6. More bottom paint
7. Re-sale the L450 is a currently produced and very popular model, think down the track in 5 years, you would be selling a 12-13 year old boat vs a 9 year old.

These are the items that come to mind, some of which are mentioned in earlier posts, on the other hand an L500 is a quicker boat, and has a larger but different salon layout, extra size is possibly better in a seaway, the cabin arrangements may suit you better, but then you are buying a boat to accommodate extra people in the off-chance that they may join you, when then L450 can be configured to handle a couple more in the salon on the very rare occasion it is needed.

My guess would be operating and maintenance would be 10% higher, capital replacement or major overhaul costs will come earlier in an older boat, so then there is the time value of money to consider.

Any way good luck with your search, either boat would be a fantastic cruising platform.

[oxymo]

Thank's guys for all valuable inputs!
It has helped me a lot already.

Ulstue you are right about the sofa in the L450 owners cabin which could be used for a younger kid to sleep there.
Also I noticed that the mirror panel in the port forward cabin of the L450 can be removed, giving direct access to the skippers cabin in the front of the bow. So by doing so, one could turn the port forward cabin in a sleeping area for 3 kids easily.

Due to this I currently think that the L450 will definitely by the better boat for us as this solution would solve the "problem" of the 4th cabin "missing".

Also Bean Counter thank's a lot for the detailed listing you provided! Much appreciated!