Mediterranean Extended Stay

[sjm823]

I am planning to spend about 1 year coastal cruising along the northern Mediterranean coast of Europe in a sailboat, stopping in ports for about 1-2 weeks at a time to sightsee. My question is should I buy a boat over in Europe or buy a seaworthy vessel here and pay a professional to skipper me and the boat to Europe. I dont have enough knowledge or experience to try an ocean crossing passage without a well qualified skipper. I am inclined to skip the passage because the kind of boat suitable for coastal cruising in the Med isn’t the same as one capable of ocean crossing. Is that right? After the one year I would sell the boat, I think!

[letsgetsailing3]

You've answered your own question.


Buy it there, use it there, sell it there.

[Sojourner]

Don't know how much you know about VAT (value added tax) but the issue might be if you bring one over from the states, you will be trying later to sell a boat with "VAT not paid" status. Which is undesirable because it means whoever buys it will be hit with VAT, usually around 20%. VAT paid or not stays with the boat, not the owner, so I dont think a new owner could even 'reset the clock' on the 18 month IIRC time limit to pay vat or get out of the eu. Something like that, who knows, I only live here

[valhalla360]

In addition to VAT, the other big issue is the schengen visa (google it) in simple terms you only have 90 days out of the last 180 days that you can be in the schengen area unless you have legal residency. (note: leaving and returning does not reset the clock and it's residency not citizenship that counts) N. Africa, Albaina, Montenegro, Turkey...and I think Croatia (they are joining the schengen just not sure when it takes effect) are outside the schengen (schengen and EU are relatd but different areas).

Having a non-VAT boat isn't the end of the world. As a non-resident, you can leave the boat in the EU for 18months and that can be extended if you are away from the boat. Also, you can reset the VAT clock by leaving the EU and returning. If you plan to sell in the EU, just plan to adjust the selling price accordingly to account for the tax.

If you search the forum for schengen and VAT, you will get lots of threads that go into the minutia.

[sjm823]

I did a little research on the Schengen and it's pretty clear that as a US citizen I don't need the visa. However my time frame may be limited to 90 days. I am still w/o seeing if I spend 90 days in one Schengen country maybe there is a reset if I travel to a different Schengen country?

[valhalla360]

Technically you do need a visa but you don't need to do anything ahead of time or pay anything. They just stamp it in your passport when you arrive and keep track of it internally...it's not like some countries where you need to apply ahead of time, pay a fee and you get a paper or physical stamp that says visa (this presumes you are american and thus can get visa on arrival for the schengen, other countries may or may not need to obtain visas in advance).

About 20yr ago, they shut down the option to just hop in and out of the schengen or to a new schengen area country to get a fresh 90 days. That's why I listed off the non-schengen countries on the med...if you want to stay continuously in med, you need to split your time in those countries. It doesn't have to be in 90 day blocks but if on any day you look back at the last 180 days, it must be 90 or less in the schengen area (and before you ask, even if you get stamped in at 11:55pm, that still counts as a day).

[MartinR]

I think your basic premise is wrong. An ocean crossing is actually safer and easier than coastal cruising, at least if you are in the right weather season.

But - yes. Buy it in Europe, sell it in Europe. For many reasons.

[chuckr]

On the purchase issue. First if you buy a boat in the USA ect you will probably get a 110v boat whereas in the Med it is all 220v. We sailed over in 2013 and have a transformer to convert 220 to 110. but if we were to sell our boat here we may have to take a huge hit because someone is going to have to change the system or put in a huge transformer and change all the plugs and maybe wiring.


NOW to Schengen - We have been in the Med going on our 6th year and it is 90 in the EU/all Schengen countries and 90 out - period. And some countries are tightening up on it. We take a lot of time planning to keep within the rules and we have sailed almost all the Med and this year will sail the northern Med - North Italy, France, North Spain - and right now working on where we will check in - ie how far north can we sail from Israel without any port calls before we check in and then ports of calls in our intended cruising area. It is a lot of work and planning.


If I would you I would fly - the cost of buying a boat and then selling it if you can and at what discount - unless you are flush with cash and like losing money fly

[crdaem]

I have a 6 month long stay visitors Visa issued by France which will permit me to cruise the other Schengen countries. My question is:- If I leave Schengen for 90 days can I return or will the 6 month visa count for the 180 days that you are only permitted to stay in a year??

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by crdaem

I have a 6 month long stay visitors Visa issued by France which will permit me to cruise the other Schengen countries. My question is:- If I leave Schengen for 90 days can I return or will the 6 month visa count for the 180 days that you are only permitted to stay in a year??

Do you have the visa or did you find some info about it?

If you have it, what did you use as the address?

Schengen is a bit of a gray area as there are no border controls within the area so unless something bad happens, they are unlikely to ever check if you stayed the whole time inside france or say in italy...but technically once your time in france hits 90 days, you used up your schengen time as far as the other schengen countries. Of course if something bad does happen and they check, it's pretty easy to trace where you were.

[crdaem]

Thank you. I already have a long stay Visa (multiple entry) Valid Feb 1 to July 31. I do have an address in France as that was one of the requirements for the Visa. I will be picking up the catamaran in La Rochelle in a few days then in Mid March proceed to Spain, Portugal and then into the Med. I believe once the Visa expires we will have to leave the Schengen and visit non Schengen countries until the end of the year. before I can go back to Schengen for 90 days because of the 180 day rule in one year.

[scriptol0g]

Originally Posted by crdaem

Thank you. I already have a long stay Visa (multiple entry) Valid Feb 1 to July 31. I do have an address in France as that was one of the requirements for the Visa. I will be picking up the catamaran in La Rochelle in a few days then in Mid March proceed to Spain, Portugal and then into the Med. I believe once the Visa expires we will have to leave the Schengen and visit non Schengen countries until the end of the year. before I can go back to Schengen for 90 days because of the 180 day rule in one year.

You can spend more time than 90 days in half year and it's a nothing complicated and you will not broke the law:
when you plan to sail from one place to another then you just need to visit a immigration officer in marina and get stamp that you leave country. After heading to another place - visit immigration officer and get stamp that you entered in. Days between leaving and entering are not counted - so you can technically sail in Mediterranean region longer than 90 day. Off course if you want to do this additional actions to "save days".

Also before visiting some country (like Croatia) check if this country is in Schengen Area - if not then you can visit it but "Schengen" days will not count. Because Croatia, Romania, Cyprus, Bulgary are in European Union but they are not in Schengen Area and they are count "own" days

So, if you will prepare and plan your trip then you can easily be here 4 month's instead of 3.

P.S. Sorry for poor English.

[hellosailor]

sjm-
You may also find that you are required to have liability insurance, in order to spend time in marinas. Something to check into, as that can vary with the length of stay and location. And with a limited sailing resume, that can be pricey.