Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 26-02-2019, 02:48   #1
Registered User
 
jasonleeau's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: On the open sea somewhere
Boat: Peter Snell Easy 37'
Posts: 29
AIS CHECK BY AUTHORITIES IN INDONESIA

Hi all, we are preparing to sail to Indonesia from Australia next month. I have been using the phone app OnCourse last year to transmit my boats data and location, boat speed, direction of travel etc. and also to see what vessels may be approaching. It has been very useful on night sails and dependable. have not had it fail yet. This system relies on the Mobile network on the Australian coast. My question is - has anyone checked into Indonesia recently using just the app as your AIS source? I've read it is a requirement of the Indonesian govt. to have a working AIS transceiver and that they come on board to check it and take photos of the unit. Have anyone experienced this and are using the mobile app as your form of AIS?

Thanks in advance.
__________________
Tank
jasonleeau is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-02-2019, 05:09   #2
Marine Service Provider
 
edsailing's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Devon, UK
Boat: Sailing vessels up to 200 tons
Posts: 388
Images: 1
Re: AIS CHECK BY AUTHORITIES IN INDONESIA

As it is dependent on the cellular network, it can't be considered to be working in real time... I would be very surprised if it was acceptable - as soon as you are out of reliable cell coverage, it won't work. In busy waters the delay could be critical.
__________________
Regards, Ed

Delivering boats for a living - no more!
edsailing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-02-2019, 05:13   #3
cruiser

Join Date: Jan 2017
Boat: Retired from CF
Posts: 13,317
Re: AIS CHECK BY AUTHORITIES IN INDONESIA

How can they enforce this, for poverty-stricken third-worlders just passing through, say subsistence fishermen?
john61ct is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-02-2019, 05:35   #4
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,126
Re: AIS CHECK BY AUTHORITIES IN INDONESIA

Quote:
Originally Posted by john61ct View Post
How can they enforce this, for poverty-stricken third-worlders just passing through, say subsistence fishermen?
I'm not familiar with the referenced policy but there is usually selective enforcement of such regulations.

It otherwise makes sense to have an AIS transceiver, even if not broadcasting in sketchy areas.
Singularity is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-02-2019, 07:53   #5
cruiser

Join Date: Jan 2017
Boat: Retired from CF
Posts: 13,317
Re: AIS CHECK BY AUTHORITIES IN INDONESIA

Sure if you can afford it. Should not IMO be mandatory for a small boat, no engine etc
john61ct is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-02-2019, 08:49   #6
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Clearwater, FL
Boat: S2 11.0a
Posts: 80
Re: AIS CHECK BY AUTHORITIES IN INDONESIA

I thought the way it worked was, IF you're a nationally documented vessel (USA COD, for example), AND you comply with all of your country's requirements, THEN another country could not enforce a contrary requirement on you? If this was not the case, any ship crossing international borders would have a huge amount of equipment, etc, in order to comply with all requirements.

I took a class about cruising in Canadian waters, and this is how it was explained to us (and it makes sense.) The Canadian officials know the US documentation, safety, placard, etc, requirements. Miss even 1 and all bets are off ... you then have to be compliant with ALL Canadian requirements and can be ticketed for each infraction. (And there are a number of unique requirements on Canadian boaters) Do you have an ax on board? How about a pea-less whistle? 2 fire buckets? 12 twin-star flares? Yikes ...
RobinScurr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-02-2019, 08:56   #7
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Cincinnati
Boat: Lagoon 500
Posts: 23
Re: AIS CHECK BY AUTHORITIES IN INDONESIA

INCORRECT REPLY. One of your responses claims that AIS relies upon cell networks. NOT TRUE!

In a country that requires AIS, and law enforcement/port authorities visually spot your vessel, and you are not transmitting an AIS signal, you may have a problem.

You will be in busy waters. Equip with a transmitting AIS.

FROM WIKI: AIS is intended, primarily, to allow ships to view marine traffic in their area and to be seen by that traffic. This requires a dedicated VHF AIS transceiver that allows local traffic to be viewed on an AIS enabled chartplotter or computer monitor while transmitting information about the ship itself to other AIS receivers. Port authorities or other shore-based facilities may be equipped with receivers only, so that they can view the local traffic without the need to transmit their own location. All AIS transceivers equipped traffic can be viewed this way very reliably but is limited to the VHF range, about 10–20 nautical miles.

In addition to VHF transmissions, most large ships send and recieve AIS signals up and down from a satellite enabling them worldwide AIS observations.
Cat White House is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-02-2019, 09:16   #8
Moderator
 
Adelie's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: La Ciudad de la Misión Didacus de Alcalá en Alta California, Virreinato de Nueva España
Boat: Cal 20
Posts: 20,490
Re: AIS CHECK BY AUTHORITIES IN INDONESIA

Quote:
Originally Posted by john61ct View Post
How can they enforce this, for poverty-stricken third-worlders just passing through, say subsistence fishermen?


The point of requiring foreign pleasure vessels is not collision avoidance but to track foreigners in their waters.

I believe it was Thailand that was first in requiring visiting vessels to have AIS. I understand the goal was to keep track of whether foreigners were running under the table charter businesses in their waters. They wanted the funds from work permits service taxes those charters would generate.

Since the point of the requirement is not vessel safety but tax and work permit enforcement then there is no grounds that the country in question is forcing extra safety requirements on a foreign flagged vessel.

I expect this AIS requirement will expand to other popular tourist destinations.
__________________
Num Me Vexo?
For all of your celestial navigation questions: https://navlist.net/
A house is but a boat so poorly built and so firmly run aground no one would think to try and refloat it.
Adelie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-02-2019, 09:31   #9
cruiser

Join Date: Jan 2017
Boat: Retired from CF
Posts: 13,317
Re: AIS CHECK BY AUTHORITIES IN INDONESIA

OK, I can see it if you're staying in their jurisdiction a while.

Just passing through their waters, then really taking the piss IMO.

And just to clarify, nothing to do with work permit revenues, starting a foreign-owned charter biz there would not even be possible, from a practical POV

their intention is preventing foreigners from competing with Thai-owned operations, which are paying off or "partnering with" the proper authorities connected to military- or police- adjacent mafia/protection rackets.
john61ct is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-02-2019, 09:37   #10
Moderator
 
Adelie's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: La Ciudad de la Misión Didacus de Alcalá en Alta California, Virreinato de Nueva España
Boat: Cal 20
Posts: 20,490
Re: AIS CHECK BY AUTHORITIES IN INDONESIA

Whatever, the point is the tourist money stays in country rather than moving on with some foreign vessel.
__________________
Num Me Vexo?
For all of your celestial navigation questions: https://navlist.net/
A house is but a boat so poorly built and so firmly run aground no one would think to try and refloat it.
Adelie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-02-2019, 09:52   #11
Registered User
 
svfinlandia's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Back at Point Marina - Whortonsville, NC USA
Boat: Nauticat NC36 36'
Posts: 725
Re: AIS CHECK BY AUTHORITIES IN INDONESIA

Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonleeau View Post
Hi all, we are preparing to sail to Indonesia from Australia next month. I have been using the phone app OnCourse last year to transmit my boats data and location, boat speed, direction of travel etc. and also to see what vessels may be approaching. It has been very useful on night sails and dependable. have not had it fail yet. This system relies on the Mobile network on the Australian coast. My question is - has anyone checked into Indonesia recently using just the app as your AIS source? I've read it is a requirement of the Indonesian govt. to have a working AIS transceiver and that they come on board to check it and take photos of the unit. Have anyone experienced this and are using the mobile app as your form of AIS?

Thanks in advance.
A phone app is not AIS.
Yes, you may be able to receive AIS ( somewhat reliably) when you have cell phone signal, but you cannot transmit and you cannot see ships when out of cell phone range.
I agree that it should not be mandatory, but I think everyone should have at least a REAL AIS receiver.

Al, S/V Finlandia
__________________
quo fata ferunt
svfinlandia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-02-2019, 10:00   #12
Senior Cruiser
 
skipmac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 29° 49.16’ N 82° 25.82’ W
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 16,306
Re: AIS CHECK BY AUTHORITIES IN INDONESIA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat White House View Post
INCORRECT REPLY. One of your responses claims that AIS relies upon cell networks. NOT TRUE!
I believe you were misreading the reply. The OP stated he was using a cell phone app in place of AIS. The response pointed out that the app (not a real AIS transponder) depends on cell coverage and thus was not a suitable replacement.
__________________
The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.
Sometimes it's necessary to state the obvious for the benefit of the oblivious.
Rust is the poor man's Loctite.
skipmac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-02-2019, 10:16   #13
Registered User
 
S/V Alchemy's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Nova Scotia until Spring 2021
Boat: Custom 41' Steel Pilothouse Cutter
Posts: 4,976
Re: AIS CHECK BY AUTHORITIES IN INDONESIA

Quote:
Originally Posted by skipmac View Post
I believe you were misreading the reply. The OP stated he was using a cell phone app in place of AIS. The response pointed out that the app (not a real AIS transponder) depends on cell coverage and thus was not a suitable replacement.

The app could only be approximate in terms of position, anyway, as I suspect it works on the basis of individual cell signals triangulated from different cell towers to generate a "circle of likelihood" for a position. But I'm just guessing. I know if I turn on location services on my phone, I can be tracked to 10 metres or so on foot. Turn it off, and it's several blocks...but I can still be roughly located. AFAIK, the only way to truly stop a phone from announcing your exact or approximate location is to remove the battery until you need it to be on.
__________________
Can't sail? Read about our travels at https://alchemyonpassage.blogspot.com/. Can't sleep? Read www.alchemy2009.blogspot.com for fast relief. Can't read? Avoid www.volumesofsalt.blogspot.com, because it's just personal reviews of sea books.
S/V Alchemy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-02-2019, 11:24   #14
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Vancouver Island, BC Canada
Boat: Bayfield 29 Sailboat
Posts: 21
Re: AIS CHECK BY AUTHORITIES IN INDONESIA

[QUOTE=jasonleeau;2834419]Hi all, we are preparing to sail to Indonesia from Australia next month. I have been using the phone app OnCourse last year to transmit my boats data and location, boat speed, direction of travel etc. and also to see what vessels may be approaching. It has been very useful on night sails and dependable. have not had it fail yet. This system relies on the Mobile network on the Australian coast. My question is - has anyone checked into Indonesia recently using just the app as your AIS source? I've read it is a requirement of the Indonesian govt. to have a working AIS transceiver and that they come on board to check it and take photos of the unit. Have anyone experienced this and are using the mobile app as your form of AIS?

Thanks in advance.[/QUOTE

It's my understanding that an AIS transciever will receive AIS signals only, identifying other boats in the area that are sending out an AIS signal. Those boats would be transmitting AIS signals with an AIS transponder which receives and transmits AIS signals.
If a government's intentions are to track vessels then they would require that vessels carry a working AIS transponder.
If their concern is just collision avoidance then, at the very least, they would require an AIS transceiver so the vessel can be aware of these AIS transmitting vessels. It won't help with collision avoidance of course from vessels not transmitting AIS.

The best would be to have radar and an AIS transponder/receiver. Currently, I think the transponders are very expensive as are radar units.
On my boat I have a Standard Horizon Radio with built in AIS receiver which was very reasonably priced. Perhaps that is all you'll need?
In Canada, commercial traffic vessels have to have AIS transponders, but there is no legal requirement for personal vessels to be equipped with AIS equipment.
windshadowthree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-02-2019, 13:13   #15
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Cruising
Boat: Ebbtide 36 steel cuttter, 11m
Posts: 34
Re: AIS CHECK BY AUTHORITIES IN INDONESIA

There is no requirement for foreign yachts to be AIS equipped in Indonesia. I was last there on a delivery 2 weeks ago, and travel through there doing Yacht Deliveries at least once per year. The only country in S.E. Asia requiring AIS on foreign flagged yachts, is Thailand, who do not require it for their own fishing vessels etc. It is doubtful if this is legally enforceable, but no one has challenged the Thai government in court yet! Singapore also requires AIS, but only if one is based there, not for vessels passing through.
Bill Robinson is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
ais, Indonesia, marina & port info

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Do Mexican Port Authorities Know English? EvermanJ Rules of the Road, Regulations & Red Tape 25 27-02-2019 08:11
Locations Where Guns Are Required by Authorities Steadman Uhlich General Sailing Forum 75 17-01-2015 22:15
Forum seized by Federal Authorities??? DoubleWhisky Our Community 48 02-04-2014 06:32

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:22.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.