Age of a boat a concern?

[MV Wanderlust]

This is mostly addressed to power boaters.

Our budget constrains us to older boats. We have been looking at 1999 - 2001 Carvers and finding some have been well-maintained and well-equipped. We didn't really want to go older than that. But then we started looking at older Hatteras motor yachts from the mid-80s in the 53' to 54' range. Some are incredibly nice inside and equipped with updated interiors, electronics, and appliances.

Are there some manufacturers that built their models so solidly that people are less afraid of buying an older boat? For example... and I'm not brand-bashing here... if you were faced with a 32 year old Bayliner and a 32 year old Hatteras, would you be inclined to say "No way would I have a 32 year old Bayliner but I'd consider the Hatteras because of their reputation and construction." Assuming good maintenance documentation and a favorable survey, of course.

Thanks,

John

[David M]

Age is not much of a factor, not like it is with a car. Initial build quality and maintenance are much larger factors.

[IslandHop]

That's kind of like asking if you'd rather have an old Honda, or a real classic, to compare to an auto . I would say yes it matters. Proud new owners of a Grand Banks 32 classic woody. Terribly neglected, top reputation, beautiful boat.

Little bit of elbow grease and she made a long passage through the Hawaiian island chain with plenty of action, 300'mi run home. Original ford lehman straight 6 runs like a dream, cranks right up. There's not many boats up to the task, less of this vintage or condition.

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by JohnEasley

Are there some manufacturers that built their models so solidly that people are less afraid of buying an older boat? For example... and I'm not brand-bashing here... if you were faced with a 32 year old Bayliner and a 32 year old Hatteras, would you be inclined to say "No way would I have a 32 year old Bayliner but I'd consider the Hatteras because of their reputation and construction." Assuming good maintenance documentation and a favorable survey, of course.

I think upkeep and consequential condition are way more important than brand.

Then too, maybe parts availability. Maybe easy to get DD parts, maybe not so easy to get Hino diesel parts. Just an example; I don't really have a clue and Hino experts could probably trot out some better info... but the issue spreads to all systems: AC, cooktops, water pumps, etc. OTOH, most things can be replaced generically... and lots or "parts" aren't really boat-brand-specific anyway. (Think plumbing fixtures and so forth.)

Way more important that all that that is suitability for intended mission. A 32 year old Hatteras -- or Bayliner or whatever -- may or may not suit the mission.

Your example if slightly unfortunate because Bayliner really has two reputations. The bigger boats, probably 32'+ all seem to be very well built and very well regarded. The smaller runabouts... not as much.

But had you said a 32 year old Hatt versus a 32 year old Carver instead, I'd still probably come up with the same answers.

Finally, aside from suitability, about the only thing that would make me hesitate about an older Hatt -- that surveys well -- is some of the 32V DC systems. I don't know enough about what systems those might be, what the implications are... so I'd want some input from the Hatteras experts about something like that. If you haven't seen it, there's a very active Hatt owners group at samsmarine.com (something like that).

-Chris

[Sea Life]

Financing terms and insurance vary with age. Make sure there is not substantial differences before you make a final decision.

[a64pilot]

I come from Powerboats, mostly Sportfishermen, and I can tell you unequivocally that a well built boat that is decades older than a less well built boat will give you less trouble in the long run, assuming engines etc have been well maintained and are in good shape.

Same though for a Sailboat. I bought a beautifully maintained three year old mass produced Boat, OP was an Electrical Engineer and really maintained the boat and spent considerable cash on upgrades.
Just what I thought I wanted, a turn key ready to go Boat, just put our clothes on her and go.
Boat failed survey with serious structural issues, ones it left the factory with most likely.
I ended up buying an old as in 27 yr old IP, but it flew through the survey with only piddling faults

Good build quality trumps age, but with a big powerboat, the value is often with the engines, older big boats are worth what the engines are worth.

[Lepke]

Much depends on the hull material. Fiberglass lasts a really long time if properly built and given reasonable care. Steel with excellent paint systems and excellent care can last as long. Wood even with excellent care requires some replacement over time. Pre-EPA wood preservatives keep wood from rot, but have to be hand made today. Without exceptional care wood boats can have a lot of problems. That said, I live on a 70+ year old wood boat.

[sailorboy1]

It has seemed to that when looking at older boats the most important factor is the condition of the boat, not a bunch of other factors unless you are looking for excuses.

[flyingfin]

The big problem with older yachts is their powerplants. I can remove and replace a pair of gas engines with brand new fuel injected gas enginers for less than the cost to rebuild a single diesel - that is if you can find the parts and willing mechanics to work on your old diesel powerplant!

And if you really wanted to replace a pair of diesels with new diesels, complete with emission control systems, they will cost you more than the vessel is worth

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by flyingfin

The big problem with older yachts is their powerplants. I can remove and replace a pair of gas engines with brand new fuel injected gas enginers for less than the cost to rebuild a single diesel - that is if you can find the parts and willing mechanics to work on your old diesel powerplant!

And if you really wanted to replace a pair of diesels with new diesels, complete with emission control systems, they will cost you more than the vessel is worth

Don't know about costs, but I've read (and two different dock neighbors have experienced) parts for most 32 year old DDs are readily available, and most can be rebuilt in in the boat.

Yes, perhaps more expensive than a new gas replacement would have been, but then again there aren't really any gassers that will push a 53-54' Hatt as the boat was intended to be used.

Replacing an old well-maintained DD with new modern Tier 3 (or whatever) diesels wouldn't usually be necessary anyway... not really enough benefit, usually, to make it worthwhile... again assuming the existing DDs are in good shape, which can be highly probable (and ascertained during the mechanical survey).

Nor would it be for the faint of heart (wallet), although there's a guy on some of the other fora who's doing just that... using factory reman Cummins 450s (6CTAs) for replacements. He's in it for the long haul with that boat, has apparently owned it for a couple decades, and is doing a whole interior re-fit at the same time. I suspect partly because he likes doing the work (he built his own current sailboat from scratch). But he'll likely end up with a jewel when he's done, even if the boat isn't necessarily in the end worth all the extra $$$ he will have put into it.

-Chris

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by JohnEasley

a 32 year old Hatteras
John

Last older Hatteras I surveyed was a 1982, 53' It had an incredibly complex electrical system. 240v, 120v, 12v, 24v, 32v, two generators, seven battery switches and six battery banks. After spending two days just on the electrical system I told the buyer that I just hit the high points in the report but that it would really take me about two weeks to thoroughly check and understand the system.

Make sure you hire a surveyor with ABYC electrical certification if you decide to take a serious look.

PS. I was at the time ABYC Certified

[MV Wanderlust]

Some very good points. Engines are the heart, which makes sense. Didn’t realize the older Hatts had such a complicated electrical system. Good to know. Thanks one and all.

[lesterbutch]

Originally Posted by JohnEasley

This is mostly addressed to power boaters.

Our budget constrains us to older boats. We have been looking at 1999 - 2001 Carvers and finding some have been well-maintained and well-equipped. We didn't really want to go older than that. But then we started looking at older Hatteras motor yachts from the mid-80s in the 53' to 54' range. Some are incredibly nice inside and equipped with updated interiors, electronics, and appliances.

Are there some manufacturers that built their models so solidly that people are less afraid of buying an older boat? For example... and I'm not brand-bashing here... if you were faced with a 32 year old Bayliner and a 32 year old Hatteras, would you be inclined to say "No way would I have a 32 year old Bayliner but I'd consider the Hatteras because of their reputation and construction." Assuming good maintenance documentation and a favorable survey, of course.

Thanks,

John

Anything after about 1975 starts to suffer from hull thinning, the manufacturers started to back off on the thickness of the hull to save money! Simple economics, however, they carried it to extremes in some cases. Some of the hulls in the middle 70s onward got to the point you could flex them by simply pushing on them, not a problem in and of itself but certainly not good in Heavy seas and even minor collisions!

[SouthernPride]

Great questions as well as answers.

I have a 1973 53' Hatteras MY and in the process of redoing. Background with boats and wanted a solid Fiberglass Hull. Bought it cheap focusing on good engines, Hull, etc...
Nothing against other manufacturers. I am very happy. A lot of work. Similar to redoing an old home. Add 50% more than what you think the upgrade will cost. Sams marine is top notch. Gave them my hull number. Guy had some schematics, other info on my boat that was impressive to know they had anything on that year and that Hull number boat.

I had stop and think about why some things were done a particular way but in 1973 I don't even something as simple as a tie wrap were even invented then. Think about that regarding other things that are built differently back then using what is available on the market today.

Interesting YouTube video on a complete overhaul of an old hat. Video of everything fom cutting fiber to get the engines and replacement process to having to take apart the old genset to remove it how they got the new one in.

I just bought another 53. It had flooded and sank. $500.00. All I wanted was the Hull.

Good luck on whatever path you take.

[Captain Ed 1961]

Budget constraints.... That’s what we all (most) have in common, I suppose...
Older boats, even well kept ones, will suffer all kinds of problems. A few things I learned the hard (expensive) way. A boat is more then a couple of engines in a hull.....
UV radiation eats up everything, that is exposed to direct sunlight. Rubber, any kind, refuses it's rubbery properties after a while....And will become 'something else'. Anything more then 10 years you get out of your electronics at sea, could be considered a present. After certain parts have been strained a high number of times, they will break...without notice on forehand. For rigging on sailing-yachts, the equivalent of 11.000 seamiles of hard sailing means the technical end of it...It will no longer be reliable 100%.
I know many people will not agree, but beware..
The real answer lies in your own hands...What can/will you do yourself? If you need someone else for every job, you better buy a brand new boat, this will be cheaper in the end. Most boatyards however will be glad to see you sailing in to their harbours, one eye on the boat, and the other on your creditcard.
Good luck by taking a wise decision......