Moving lines to cockpit

[Pendragon35]

I have a 1965 Alberg 35 with two reef points, main, jib, spinnaker halyards at the mast. The reefing lines are run along the boom to the gooseneck. I single hand the boat often.

As I plan spring projects, I'm thinking about moving everything so it can be operated from the cockpit. I seldom use the spinnaker, and the jib is on a furler, so it isn't raised often. That leaves the main and reef lines. To have it all at the cockpit, I'd need to have
1. Main halyard
2. Reef line 1
3. Reef line 2
4. Tack line for Reef 1
5. Tack line for Reef 2
6. Probably a downhaul for the main.
7. Outhaul
8. Topping lift

So I have a vague idea to have all of this come to blocks at the bottom of the mast, then to a set of horizontal turning blocks, then to stoppers. The boat came with three winches on the port side of the cabin roof, so I could set up to use those.

My questions are:
1. What's the best way to mount the turning blocks at the bottom of the mast?
2. Would a bail at the bottom of the mast attached with screws or rivets on both sides weaken it? does this need some sort of internal reinforcement?
3. Is this too many lines to have in one area?

Thanks for your advice in advance!

[tkeithlu]

Hummmm. Successfully single handing a spinnaker will earn my greatest respect. I want to see the YouTube.

Are the jib sheets already at the cockpit?

Your halyard in particular is going to need serious reinforcement at the base of the mast/roof of the cabin. That means a backing plate inside the cabin, and even then you might consider how firm a base that is. The rest can be mounted to the same plate with through bolts. If it lifts even the tiniest bit when you snug that halyard, your roof isn't strong enough for this modification.

I've seen more lines than that on a single-hander. Be sure that they are organized/labelled such that you will never drop the sail having meant to adjust the outhaul.

Drilling new holes in a mast is not a good idea. Any time the mast is bent away from the hole the hole weakens the mast. You don't know how much reserve strength the designer put in the mast, and you'll only find out by demasting. Could spoil your whole day.

[Orion Jim]

I think you are introducing too many lines into the cockpit. You would need tiers of sheet bags just to keep the tails in order. If you think it may improve handling just plan for all the lines you mentioned but actually only implement the relocation of a few lines to see if you can live with the results. In other words phase in the plan.
I have a cutter with roller furling on both my headsails and my staysail has a boom. This means I have a staysail furling line and a staysail outhaul led aft along with my staysail sheet. For my headsail I also have a furling line and two sheets led aft. My main sheet and the two main sheet traveler lines are also led to the cockpit.
This is more than enough for me but each line is essential. Everything else terminates at the mast or on the main boom. That keeps things reasonably neat, in my opinion. I am a singlehander and I have found my infrequent trips to the mast for any adjustments or reefing just don’t warrant leading all my lines aft. I’ve done in excess of 6,000 miles at sea rigged this way in everything including a full gale in the Gulf Stream so I have practical experience.

[Dsanduril]

Is the mast stepped on the deck or on the keel (I couldn't tell from photos I found online)? This makes a big difference in how turning blocks need to be attached. If the mast is stepped on the keel then attaching turning blocks to the deck will almost certainly cause deck movement => turning blocks should likely be attached to the mast itself in this case. In the case of a deck-stepped mast it is quite common to attach turning blocks to the mast step as this is usually quite rigid and well reinforced.

From an engineering perspective if the lines are already made fast to the mast then there isn't much difference in load, although exact load location may move a bit. The halyard (and other lines) will still be putting the mast in compression at a value equal to their tension. There are lots of examples on how to do this with a deck-stepped mast and it is pretty easy. I've never owned a keel-stepped boat but have seen the problems with movement at the partners on other people's boats - however I have no direct with a keel-stepped installation.

I love having all of the lines led back to the cockpit, but as Orion Jim points out it can lead to significant clutter if not handled well.

[B23iL23]

To reduce the reefing lines could you change to single line reefing? You would eliminate 3 lines.

[PEACETIME]

Need to be aware of the increase of friction at every turn, I was very surprised. Then to purchase the proper blocks was an unexpected cost. Still go to the mast to raise the main. It isn't the same in the cockpit as standing at the mast and using my body weight to finish raising the main the last few feet.

[Cyrus Safdari]

If deck-stepped mast, you can get a halyard organizer plate that goes under the mast that has holes for blocks to attach-to, arranging them around the mast.
https://www.rigrite.com/Spars/SparPa...zer_Plates.php

[Cheechako]

-There are people who like their lines aft. I've had it both ways. I far prefer having the lines at the mast. Especially on a boat like yours with decent side decks. Yes you have to go to the mast, but everything is there, friction is low etc.
-With lines led aft, I found that often a line will loop/jam around a turning block, or there will be a twist/buckle in a line and it jams at some block etc etc. So you end up going forward to clear that anyway.
-Single line reefing never worked for me. Way too much friction on a bigger boat. I suppose if you spent enough on ball bearing blocks at the sail clew areas and the rest it may be better.
-I can reef at the mast pronto without issues.
-All those long tail lines in the cockpit are a damn mess, tangled, in the way etc.
-Stoppers love to be difficult to release and you end up taking the tail to a winch to release tension. SO you clear the winch of one thing to do the other. Then... will the original line be releasable?
Just a KISS kind of guy I guess.

[B23iL23]

Absolutely but with the right gear and lines it does work and friction is minimized - we used to have it on all our racing boats and it meant a reef on a big rig could be tucked in place in less that 30 seconds (with 2 crew). Single handed you ease the main, drop the halyard and then wind in the reef.

Originally Posted by PEACETIME

Need to be aware of the increase of friction at every turn, I was very surprised. Then to purchase the proper blocks was an unexpected cost. Still go to the mast to raise the main. It isn't the same in the cockpit as standing at the mast and using my body weight to finish raising the main the last few feet.

[Gary Mc]

I like Cyrus's idea of the mast base from Rig Rite, looks much like what comes standard on a lot of boats that have all lines lead aft. My boat, more of a racer/cruiser came that way from the factory.



I do some single handed sailing and hope to do more this year. With my current reef system I go to the mast and pull the first cringle down to a hook at the goose neck. Not easy when you have to also ease the main halyard.
Then back to the cockpit to crank in the outboard reef line.


I am going to try a single line system this year, good blocks, likely Garhauer hopefully will work. They also make some nice ball bearing Deck Organizers.


Keep your line as small as possible. Many suggest at least a 3/8" line but that gives you lots of friction at the blocks. 5/16" should work. I might strip my outer cover if I still have too much friction.

I only have one reef point but then I only sail on a lake.

[Bill O]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

-There are people who like their lines aft. I've had it both ways. I far prefer having the lines at the mast. Especially on a boat like yours with decent side decks. Yes you have to go to the mast, but everything is there, friction is low etc.
-With lines led aft, I found that often a line will loop/jam around a turning block, or there will be a twist/buckle in a line and it jams at some block etc etc. So you end up going forward to clear that anyway.
-Single line reefing never worked for me. Way too much friction on a bigger boat. I suppose if you spent enough on ball bearing blocks at the sail clew areas and the rest it may be better.
-I can reef at the mast pronto without issues.
-All those long tail lines in the cockpit are a damn mess, tangled, in the way etc.
-Stoppers love to be difficult to release and you end up taking the tail to a winch to release tension. SO you clear the winch of one thing to do the other. Then... will the original line be releasable?
Just a KISS kind of guy I guess.

+1 Well written and why we did not bring our lines aft.


Bill O.

[Don C L]

I have had them all ways. I prefer running the main halyard and jib halyard back ( I have hank-on headsails.) I have rigged the single line reefing, and it was ok but needed some improvement so I have gone back to reefing at the mast for now. I don’t run the outhaul back. The clutter in the cockpit is definitely something to consider. The single line reefing really can add to that! It would be nice to see a photo of your mast at the deck and gooseneck. I suspect you may prefer to tap for screws to hold cheek blocks on the mast and have a deck organizer and clutches. Works well for me.

[Pendragon35]

Thanks to all of you who have so helpfully commented, you've given me a lot to think about. The mast is stepped on deck. I hadn't thought about the issue of lots of lines in the cockpit but I can see what you're saying.

[Russ]

Second Cheekaco. Go to the mast and install a good set of grab / pulpit bars at the mast.

[blakeney]

I have an Alberg 35 Yawl. #107 built 1964.
I don't think moving all that stuff to the cockpit is worth the time or expense.
If you re-think your jackline & safety harness setup so that you can clip on at the mast with the appropriate length line you will have a safe system without the clutter in the cockpit.