Beneteau 393 vs Island Packet 35

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

From my little experience, I think Robert pretty much hit it pretty close to home.
Only thing I would differ on if light on the helm means light pressure on the wheel the IP due to it having a balanced spade rudder is light, but the helm position is in my opinion pretty horrible, but you get that wonderful rack and pinion steering because of it.

Huh? IPs do not have balanced spade rudders.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Paul L

Huh? IPs do not have balanced spade rudders.

yes they do, the lobster strap is just that, although it adds strength I'm sure, but it's not needed

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

yes they do, the lobster strap is just that, although it adds strength I'm sure, but it's not needed

Interesting, I guess I think of a balanced Spade as one that is totally held by its shaft and with a portion of the area in front of the shaft. If you removed the 'lobster strap' I guess the IP would qualify. Is the strapping really not structural? If this a spade rudder, how come they have such a poor rep for backing up? Or is that myth too?

[rockDAWG]

If you like the 70's beige, get a IP. She sails slower to boot. If you like cleanly white boat, get a Benny.

[geoleo]

Ar ou kddig? The IP 35 is abarge --hardly can go upwnd and lsow elsewhere.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Paul L

Interesting, I guess I think of a balanced Spade as one that is totally held by its shaft and with a portion of the area in front of the shaft. If you removed the 'lobster strap' I guess the IP would qualify. Is the strapping really not structural? If this a spade rudder, how come they have such a poor rep for backing up? Or is that myth too?

I believe not backing up well is more of a function of a full keel than what type of rudder. If I can get 1 kt backwards, she will turn in either direction, or if barely moving if placed in neutral, inertia will carry her in either direction (assuming no wind). It's getting her going until there is enough water flow over the rudder for it to become effective that it prop walks to port, remember of course the only flow of water over the rudder in reverse is from the boats movement, in forward of course wash off the prop goes over the rudder and it's very effective, so if you find yourself slowly backing to port towards a post for exampe, a quick blast of fwd thrust with the rudder held to port will bring the stern smartly to starboard without any forward movement of the boat.
Personally once I got used to it, knew how much of it there was, prop walk became my friend. Great for coming along a dock, just before the port side bow touches the dock, rudder over to starboard, and a good shot of reverse prop walks the stern in leaving the bow where it is

It's a post hung spade rudder, the lobster strap supposedly isn't required structually, but obviously does add to the strength and protection. Being a balanced rudder is why they have light wheel force and can get away with that little wheel, of course you can balance a skeg hung rudder too.

I'm the furthest thing from a Naval Architect, but as a novice looking at the thing, IP's seem to be sort of a modernized version of a classic design, a purist may tell you it's not really a full keel either, and they may be right.

Last comment, you know the Elephant in the room, how many IP's have broken up and sunk this year?

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I believe not backing up well is more of a function of a full keel than what type of rudder. If I can get 1 kt backwards, she will turn in either direction, or if barely moving if placed in neutral, inertia will carry her in either direction (assuming no wind). It's getting her going until there is enough water flow over the rudder for it to become effective that it prop walks to port, remember of course the only flow of water over the rudder in reverse is from the boats movement, in forward of course wash off the prop goes over the rudder and it's very effective, so if you find yourself slowly backing to port towards a post for exampe, a quick blast of fwd thrust with the rudder held to port will bring the stern smartly to starboard without any forward movement of the boat.
Personally once I got used to it, knew how much of it there was, prop walk became my friend. Great for coming along a dock, just before the port side bow touches the dock, rudder over to starboard, and a good shot of reverse prop walks the stern in leaving the bow where it is

It's a post hung spade rudder, the lobster strap supposedly isn't required structually, but obviously does add to the strength and protection. Being a balanced rudder is why they have light wheel force and can get away with that little wheel, of course you can balance a skeg hung rudder too.

I'm the furthest thing from a Naval Architect, but as a novice looking at the thing, IP's seem to be sort of a modernized version of a classic design, a purist may tell you it's not really a full keel either, and they may be right.

Last comment, you know the Elephant in the room, how many IP's have broken up and sunk this year?

My old Alberg 35 was always an adventure to back up with its barn door rudder. I used to get it going in reverse and see which way it wanted to go. If I agreed with that direction then I kept going. Sounds like you've developed better skills on your IP.

As far as the Elephant in the room, you're point is valid. There are many more Benes around, with many that have lived a hard life. Some due to racing, some due to years of inadequate maintanace, etc. Some that just past the designers safety margin. Other than the chainplate issues, you don't hear too many potential horror stories on the IPs much lower production numbers. In the end it comes down to where you want to sail. The OP had fairly modest goals. And down to what type of actual sailing you like vs how much motoring is OK. They are different boats for different folks.

[iwindance]

I had exactly the same dilemma. I previously owned a Tiburon (Cabo Rico) heavy displacement. I loved the boat but it was not for light air. I almost bought the ip 35, backed out and bought the 393. If you want to sail and get places 393 is the way go. The IP 35 is a beauty, but it is slow, kindly in a seaway though. I took my 393 up the east coast last summer. On a passage from Solomon's to fishing bay in Chesapeake, IP35 and I left together. I arrived 1 1/4 hour before her with 10 to 12 knots wind. you will love either one, just buy one and go
T


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