Morgan 45

[Stevediveski]

Hello people of the sea,
I would like some advice. I'm a newb and want to get my own boat. I'm looking at a Morgan 45 which has got my attention but I did a bit of research and people are talking these boats down. Whats wrong with the Morgans? Why have they got a bad rap? The boat "looks" good and has a nice layout for liveaboard. Please keep in mind that I'm not a racer and don't need perfomance so much as functionality.
Thanks Steve

[satdiver]

I have a friend who owns a Morgan and loves the boat. Although IMHO I think there are better boats out there with a good liveaboard layout below and better sailing performance comparatively priced.

[sailorboy1]

which Morgan 45?

[Stevediveski]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

which Morgan 45?

I think it's a 1983 Morgan 45-4. Can you tell me anything about these boats?
Thanks Steve

[robert sailor]

Steve,
The Morgans and Irwins were budget boats when they were built. They served their purpose very well which was mostly the charter business. Many have not aged very well and depending on the intended use may not be a good choice.
That said, if they have been well maintained they can be a good choice for coastal cruising or the Caribbean or a good live a board as they are roomy boats. I have also seen some Morgans in far off lands so some people are taking them offshore but in my opinion there are better choices out there for that purpose.

[Stevediveski]

Thanks Robert Sailor,
I've had mixed reviews on them but what you talked about was exactly what I'm concerned about. Is there anyway to see if a boat was a charter? They're obviously not gonna tell me if it was. The boat prices are so much cheaper over there than in Australia but its impossible to know what ones to pursue without spending heaps of money on surveys. Pictures don't tell you much about a boats condition. In fact they all look good in pictures.
But thanks for the input.
Steve

[Stevediveski]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

Steve,
The Morgans and Irwins were budget boats when they were built. They served their purpose very well which was mostly the charter business. Many have not aged very well and depending on the intended use may not be a good choice.
That said, if they have been well maintained they can be a good choice for coastal cruising or the Caribbean or a good live a board as they are roomy boats. I have also seen some Morgans in far off lands so some people are taking them offshore but in my opinion there are better choices out there for that purpose.

So what boats would you recommend? Please keep in mind I'm on a small budget. A few names would be useful. Thanks

[robert sailor]

Steve,
Its too tough a question to answer properly. Typically people are drawn to Irwins and Morgans because of the price. You get a big boat for a small price. Your normal skepticism has to kick in here and ask yourself why? That said, what is your intended use? They may be good choices if you were planning on a live a board lifestyle and local sailing although neither is a great sailor. How much money do you want to spend? How many people are going to be aboard full time? How do you intend to use the boat? How long do you intend to keep it?

[Stevediveski]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

Steve,
Its too tough a question to answer properly. Typically people are drawn to Irwins and Morgans because of the price. You get a big boat for a small price. Your normal skepticism has to kick in here and ask yourself why? That said, what is your intended use? They may be good choices if you were planning on a live a board lifestyle and local sailing although neither is a great sailor. How much money do you want to spend? How many people are going to be aboard full time? How do you intend to use the boat? How long do you intend to keep it?

I see what you mean. It would be my first proper yacht as apposed to sailboat so I want go cheap in case I run it aground. lol. I would plan on using around Australia and the South Pacific. With 2-3 on board, probably 2. Having said that I do need to sail it back to australia from whereever I buy it. So I need an experienced skipper to help me across the Pacific too. So I'm hoping to srtay around the 20-30G USD. Yes I expect a lot for my money. lol
Steve

[robert sailor]

Steve,
The difficulty you are facing is the distance gap between where you want to buy the boat and where you want to use it. I'm sure that for 20-30 grand you can buy an older Erwin or Morgan in the USA but most of those boats are on the East Coast (Florida) and you are talking about bringing that boat back to Australia. A boat selling in those price ranges is a boat that needs work and refitting which might be fine if your handy and the boat is near your home but not so good when you have an ocean to cross. Refitting on a 45 foot boat can easily cost as much or more than the boat so I think you ad better rethink your plan.

[sailorboy1]

Back when I researched the 454 it seemed to me that they were a fast boat, but not really a comfortable boat. One of the things I decided was that they were in very low demand and I saw the same ones for sale for years and to me that met something (an issue I wasn't finding in research). I was able to tell just by photos that they appeared to have a leakage problem in the aft berthing (from all the photos that had easy to see stains).

In the end they looked good in photos but I decided to just pass on them and never went and looked at one in person, so I can not say anything first hand.

[forsailbyowner]

My 33 OI logs a couple thousand miles a year. Remember when everyone says theyre not good sailing boats theyre talking about upwind. Ive cruised with people with faster boats but when the weather piped up I was enoying a coffee while they were fighting the helm trying to keep a course. At the end of a particular voyage of 50kt winds I had to stop and wait a day for the other boat because they were exhausted, I was sailing solo. They sail extremely well off the wind and hold a course much better than the faster the bolt on keel crowd. Old boats have issues. I had to address the leaky hull to deck joint and have changed the interior layout to more compartmentalize to stiffen her up but overall the design is just what i was looking for.

Looking at the 45-4 I can see it was designed more for the speed than outisland model I had a friend who owned a morgan that was raced extensively. There were problems with hull cracking around keel supports. Of course that could have been due to the deep draft and being in florida waters. It was a fast boat though.

[HappyMdRSailor]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

Steve,
The difficulty you are facing is the distance gap between where you want to buy the boat and where you want to use it. I'm sure that for 20-30 grand you can buy an older Erwin or Morgan in the USA but most of those boats are on the East Coast (Florida) and you are talking about bringing that boat back to Australia. A boat selling in those price ranges is a boat that needs work and refitting which might be fine if your handy and the boat is near your home but not so good when you have an ocean to cross. Refitting on a 45 foot boat can easily cost as much or more than the boat so I think you ad better rethink your plan.

Robert has extremely good points here and I agree with them... 20-30k can be had, but bare minimum to get her seaworthy to cross is surely 10k+++

Originally Posted by forsailbyowner

My 33 OI logs a couple thousand miles a year. Remember when everyone says theyre not good sailing boats theyre talking about upwind. Ive cruised with people with faster boats but when the weather piped up I was enoying a coffee while they were fighting the helm trying to keep a course. At the end of a particular voyage of 50kt winds I had to stop and wait a day for the other boat because they were exhausted, I was sailing solo. They sail extremely well off the wind and hold a course much better than the faster the bolt on keel crowd. Old boats have issues. I had to address the leaky hull to deck joint and have changed the interior layout to more compartmentalize to stiffen her up but overall the design is just what i was looking for.

Looking at the 45-4 I can see it was designed more for the speed than outisland model I had a friend who owned a morgan that was raced extensively. There were problems with hull cracking around keel supports. Of course that could have been due to the deep draft and being in florida waters. It was a fast boat though.

My experiences with the M33OI mirror this...

There are other terrific sailors here with the bigger Morgans who love them... Plenty of others who would never even step on one...

[robert sailor]

Steve,
The challenge a first time buyer always has is exactly how to spend his money wisely, many might suggest that there is nothing wise about purchasing a boat in the first place. Boats are a hell of a lot of fun and I quite like spending money on them however you are asking for advice....if you buy a large boat such as a 45 footer for very little money you can be sure that the maintenance and refitting will be a large dollar. Everything from insurance to marina costs to haul outs and bottom painting are going to be high and when you buy a simple block, it will probably be 5 times the cost of the same block on a 30 footer and those extremes will be similar on all the other boat parts. So in the end the boat purchase part of your decision will feel like the cheap seats after you pay your ongoing costs to keep it in decent shape.
Looking at your budget you should in my opinion be looking at smaller boats that you can own without breaking the bank. There are lots of different threads on this site that will help you if you choose to go this route. Good luck!

[Stevediveski]

Ok I;m convinced. And I'm over the Morgan 45 too. I have headed your advice. I am now being less amitious about the comfort and roominess factors. I am now looking at some 30-35 fter's. What everyones opinion on and older 1975 Hans Christian? I'll even brovide a link. This boat is also in Cali so I dont have to go through the Panama canal to get home.
1975 Hans Christian 34 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
P.S. Which are worse used car salesman or yacht brokers?? lol