Buy a long term cruiser or a starter boat?

[RadSailing]

I'd like to sail down to the Mediterranean from the UK during the season, and back up/across via the inland rivers and canals during the off-season. As I'm completely new to sailing I thought I might 'practice' closer to home on the south coast and Norfolk Broads as well. (They say if you can sail the Norfolk Broads...)

If all goes well and I enjoy the liveaboard life I'll rinse and repeat the Europe trips as long as I like, then head across the Atlantic and cruise further afield.

It seems sensible to buy a starter boat, something in the £10-15k range, either a bilge or shallow draught, with a deck stepped or hinged mast, that can deal with inland sailing, as well as something insulated or heated that can deal with cold, wet, winters. Not usually on the 'cruiser' checklist!

A Sadler, due to the handling, seaworthiness and insulation is definitely winning right now, but I'm also looking at Moodys and Westerlys, I know the quality of the boat on offer matters more than the name.

My question is whether getting a starter boat at a lower financial outlay than a classic (£30k+) cruiser makes sense? If it turns out liveaboard life is not for me, will I be able to sell it on for around the same as I got it? Do they hold their value? Would fin rather than bilge keel be better? It seems like there are fewer Sadlers available, do they shift faster or are there just less about?

Does 27-30ft sound about right for a singlehanded liveaboard? If I was thinking of living in it for the next ten years I'd be inclined to go up a few feet, but as a starter I think I should stay smallish? (Not too small, some 22-26s are cute but I think after a year or two I'd go crazy.)

[valhalla360]

I won't speak to specific models...but yes, an inexpensive starter boat to learn on makes a lot of sense.

Worst case scenario, you are out 10k.

More importantly, you probably don't know what you really want. What looks great reading magazines and want ads may be totally impractical in real life. After a bit of use, you will have a much better idea of what you really want.

[rbk]

Originally Posted by RadSailing

I'd like to sail down to the Mediterranean from the UK during the season, and back up/across via the inland rivers and canals during the off-season. As I'm completely new to sailing I thought I might 'practice' closer to home on the south coast and Norfolk Broads as well. (They say if you can sail the Norfolk Broads...)

If all goes well and I enjoy the liveaboard life I'll rinse and repeat the Europe trips as long as I like, then head across the Atlantic and cruise further afield.

It seems sensible to buy a starter boat, something in the £10-15k range, either a bilge or shallow draught, with a deck stepped or hinged mast, that can deal with inland sailing, as well as something insulated or heated that can deal with cold, wet, winters. Not usually on the 'cruiser' checklist!

A Sadler, due to the handling, seaworthiness and insulation is definitely winning right now, but I'm also looking at Moodys and Westerlys, I know the quality of the boat on offer matters more than the name.

My question is whether getting a starter boat at a lower financial outlay than a classic (£30k+) cruiser makes sense? If it turns out liveaboard life is not for me, will I be able to sell it on for around the same as I got it? Do they hold their value? Would fin rather than bilge keel be better? It seems like there are fewer Sadlers available, do they shift faster or are there just less about?

Does 27-30ft sound about right for a singlehanded liveaboard? If I was thinking of living in it for the next ten years I'd be inclined to go up a few feet, but as a starter I think I should stay smallish? (Not too small, some 22-26s are cute but I think after a year or two I'd go crazy.)

Most used boats will hold their value if they’re maintained. Problem is any upgrades you do will be mostly lost. So if you buy a 15K boat and drop another 15k into it it’s still gonna be worth 15k (and it will need it even for coastal cruising) 26’ day sailors or trailer sailors generally don’t require the level of up fit and give you a more rustic taste of sailing. IMO I’d get something smaller with little to no plan for up fitting and plan to ditch it after a season or two, figure out what you want then upgrade. When you decide on your cruising boat (using your 30k budget) be prepared to spend that again getting it ready. Keep your money rough it for a season then make your decision.

[RadSailing]

Thanks for the advice guys, I'll start looking a little smaller in that case. Is £15k a reasonable budget for trailer sailor size? I guess I was overestimating how far my budget would stretch?

[rbk]

I would shoot for something between 8-10 but finding a deal at 5 isn’t unheard of. Save a little cash for some tools, conveniences that are transferable to your next boat.

[grantmc]

OP I'd encourage you find a copy of Shrimpy Sails by Shane Acton. He did exactly what you are considering, but without any planning. He bought a little bilge keeler for 500 quid when he came out of the army. Taught himself to sail in her, all round the South Coast. Eventually thought to himself 'maybe I could try sailing to France'; so he did. And then he thought 'it would be nice to sail to Spain'; so he did, and so on and so on. 3 years later he arrived back where he'd started after many adventures, a world circumnavigation and had enjoyed the company of a number of lovely girlfriends.

And whilst we're talking about not letting the truth get in the way of a good story, any book by Tristan Jones is awesome motivation to get out there and get going in a small boat. Tristan had a significant number of firsts. For example he was the first to circumnavigate, single handed, Iceland. His recount of fighting off a polar bear is truly amazing. He was even the first (and probably only) to sail from the Pacific to the Atlantic via Lake Titicaca (and yes a truck was also involved).

The size boat is really a matter of comfort. A smaller boat has much more movement in the sea. Up, down and sideways heeling; the ride is not as comfortable. So cooking, eating, taking a dump, getting dressed etc are all more difficult and uncomfortable. Many smaller boats also lack head room. Engine and storage spaces are much smaller, so tight fitting is the name of the game. There's no room for big battery banks, nor for loads of 'stuff'.

The vlog Keep Turning Left might be a handy reference. The focus is on sailing around Britain, but he only uses small, cheap sailboats.

Also I'd suggest a read of Atom Voyages. James has a really good article on choosing a small boat. Whilst his article is based mostly on American boats, the points are still valid and so bolster your knowledge, hopefully making your search better informed.

For myself I'd also point out the benefits of a bilge keeler. They're available in abundance in the UK and have many advantages. At the same time they don't enjoy wide popularity and so their price tends to be lower. The result, typically: more boat for your buck. Sure, they're not so great head to wind, sailing head to wind is never fun, especially on a long passage. So my solution is to hoist the iron sail as well to give us more height.

[rbk]

Originally Posted by grantmc

OP I'd encourage you find a copy of Shrimpy Sails by Shane Acton. He did exactly what you are considering, but without any planning. He bought a little bilge keeler for 500 quid when he came out of the army. Taught himself to sail in her, all round the South Coast. Eventually thought to himself 'maybe I could try sailing to France'; so he did. And then he thought 'it would be nice to sail to Spain'; so he did, and so on and so on. 3 years later he arrived back where he'd started after many adventures, a world circumnavigation and had enjoyed the company of a number of lovely girlfriends.

And whilst we're talking about not letting the truth get in the way of a good story, any book by Tristan Jones is awesome motivation to get out there and get going in a small boat. Tristan had a significant number of firsts. For example he was the first to circumnavigate, single handed, Iceland. His recount of fighting off a polar bear is truly amazing. He was even the first (and probably only) to sail from the Pacific to the Atlantic via Lake Titicaca (and yes a truck was also involved).

The size boat is really a matter of comfort. A smaller boat has much more movement in the sea. Up, down and sideways heeling; the ride is not as comfortable. So cooking, eating, taking a dump, getting dressed etc are all more difficult and uncomfortable. Many smaller boats also lack head room. Engine and storage spaces are much smaller, so tight fitting is the name of the game. There's no room for big battery banks, nor for loads of 'stuff'.

The vlog Keep Turning Left might be a handy reference. The focus is on sailing around Britain, but he only uses small, cheap sailboats.

Also I'd suggest a read of Atom Voyages. James has a really good article on choosing a small boat. Whilst his article is based mostly on American boats, the points are still valid and so bolster your knowledge, hopefully making your search better informed.

For myself I'd also point out the benefits of a bilge keeler. They're available in abundance in the UK and have many advantages. At the same time they don't enjoy wide popularity and so their price tends to be lower. The result, typically: more boat for your buck. Sure, they're not so great head to wind, sailing head to wind is never fun, especially on a long passage. So my solution is to hoist the iron sail as well to give us more height.

There is something to be said about a cheap boat you don't have a lot invested in that you're willing to push the limits with. Great way to learn IMO

[RadSailing]

GrantMC Thank you for all those links! That list summarises what to look for really well.

[slug]

Originally Posted by RadSailing

I'd like to sail down to the Mediterranean from the UK during the season, and back up/across via the inland rivers and canals during the off-season. As I'm completely new to sailing I thought I might 'practice' closer to home on the south coast and Norfolk Broads as well. (They say if you can sail the Norfolk Broads...)

If all goes well and I enjoy the liveaboard life I'll rinse and repeat the Europe trips as long as I like, then head across the Atlantic and cruise further afield.

It seems sensible to buy a starter boat, something in the £10-15k range, either a bilge or shallow draught, with a deck stepped or hinged mast, that can deal with inland sailing, as well as something insulated or heated that can deal with cold, wet, winters. Not usually on the 'cruiser' checklist!

A Sadler, due to the handling, seaworthiness and insulation is definitely winning right now, but I'm also looking at Moodys and Westerlys, I know the quality of the boat on offer matters more than the name.

My question is whether getting a starter boat at a lower financial outlay than a classic (£30k+) cruiser makes sense? If it turns out liveaboard life is not for me, will I be able to sell it on for around the same as I got it? Do they hold their value? Would fin rather than bilge keel be better? It seems like there are fewer Sadlers available, do they shift faster or are there just less about?

Does 27-30ft sound about right for a singlehanded liveaboard? If I was thinking of living in it for the next ten years I'd be inclined to go up a few feet, but as a starter I think I should stay smallish? (Not too small, some 22-26s are cute but I think after a year or two I'd go crazy.)

Buy something beautiful...something small, Something simple , something that can fit on a trailer.
For messing around in the canals and coastal Mediterranean you don’t need a blue water cruiser.

Perhaps one of these beautiful boats by the renowned British designer Nigel Irens

[Simi 60]

We chose trial by fire for our foray into sailing so as to get skills up fast.

For out taste of monohulls we sailed and cruised, sort of, a 30ft YW Diamond for several years before progressing into multihulls.

[Pete7]

Before buying a boat, can I suggest you do the RYA Competent Crew. The schools advertise in the back of Practical Boat Owner magazine, so off to WH Smiths in the morning. Book a winter or early Spring week which will keep the costs down and if sailing and living on board for a week doesn't put you off, then you can think of buying a yacht.

If you are going to live on board, two things. Find somewhere to moor it and price it up, won't be cheap in the south east UK. Live aboard owners have to keep their heads down, be squeaky clean and invisible.

To live on board in the UK you will probably need 30+ feet to avoid the cabin fever feel. It's not just the length but width and height which makes it more comfortable. So old Moody 33 or similar sized Westerly, Sadler 32 or 34 etc. I wouldn't rule out a Nic 31 or 32.

You will need mains shore power and have to insulate the inside of the hull. You will need a de-humidifer running every couple of days in the winter. Add a full cockpit canopy which will give you an extra room for wet stuff in the unlikely event it rains during an English winter

If you want to do the French canals, then nothing with a deep keel. Worth searching CF about the French canals.

Good luck.

Pete

[JPA Cate]

It seems like a really tricky choice to me: narrow beam for the English canals will fit all the other ones; and discover the minimum drafts from the canal governing bodies for the nations involved, and then fit your plans for the boat into that. Good luck with it, it will be a challenge. We've known people who "did" the European (not the British) canals as part of their circumnavigations, but they took down the masts entirely, as the air drafts can be a real issue.



Ann

[nortonscove]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

I won't speak to specific models...but yes, an inexpensive starter boat to learn on makes a lot of sense.

Worst case scenario, you are out 10k.

More importantly, you probably don't know what you really want. What looks great reading magazines and want ads may be totally impractical in real life. After a bit of use, you will have a much better idea of what you really want.

Just like this 👍

[jen1722terry]

Are there any sailing clubs or basic yacht clubs in your area? At my old club in New Jersey, we had a cruiser class for the Sunday and Wednesday night races. Skippers were always looking for crew. A great, free way to learn to sail with experienced owners/skippers and sail on a variety of boats. Some sailing clubs charter yachts for weekend and longer cruises, which would increase you exposure to more yachts.

Just and idea. Look on-line to see what's in your area.

Jenn and Terry

[FionaJC]

Everybody has their own route and plan and they aren't always the same!



I sailed dinghies as a teenager and learnt my skills. Went back to it when the family were old enough to sail at the local club. I ended up helping and went back to dinghy sailing.


I then thought Id go into something larger, 27ft seemed ideal (East Coast UK). But first I did the competent crew, day skipper and Yachtmaster courses and crewed at a local yacht club. I started building a 10m boat as I knew a 27ft wouldn't be right for us. I abandoned that due to losing the building shed after I had built the formers, rack, bulkheads and just received the rest of the wood for the hull. All this time I was crewing on anything I could, crews are always in demand. I ended up after trying several boats as crew with a 40' motor sailer ketch. Ive done several channel crossings.


Remember experience is that thing that allows you to make a different mistake next time.